Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith Buffalo H5893 & Sopwith Swallow B9276 outside the Sopwith works at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sopwith-Buf...UAAOSw8MRfolq3


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Nice photo Clint

Never seen it before, and most likely taken in October 1918 during roll out of both machines.

The Swallow is interesting since it still carried the serial B9276, which was from a standard Camel fuselage used when built.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith 1B2 of C 42 at:
https://www.delcampe.net/fr/collecti...126070926.html


Can anyone make out the serial?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith D.1 aka Sopwith Three Seater 324 following a collision with the sister machine 325 at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Biplane-C...0AAOSwOERfrpuw


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on rbay is a photo of the Belgian Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter 'Flying Fox' serial S-7 of 6 Escadrille at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/orig-Foto-Ph...QAAOSwq85f8hbJ


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith 7F.1 Snipe E8081 at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910s-WWI-A...AAAOSwsaZf8jRm


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith 7F.1 Snipe E6353 taken during the British intervention in North Russia at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sopwith-Sni...wAAOSwjqlf-WeP


Does anyone know the Squadron?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay among a series of six otherwise indifferent photos, is an image of Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter B2591 at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RFC-Six-O...wAAOSwls9gAw2m


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith Pup A6157 of 46 Squadron at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Flieger...sAAOSwAjlgLV~u


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are two photos of a Sopwith Camel F6343 of 65 Squadron at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WW...AAAOSwIXdgRDuN


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WW...QAAOSwGOtgRDze


and two photos of a Sopwith Snipe of 4 Sq AFC at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WW...8AAOSwdPJgREHo


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WW...0AAOSw7AxgRELw




Edit

There is also a photo of a line up of 4 afc sOPWITH 7f.1 Snipes led by E8008 at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-...kAAOSwQndgRLHq


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Snipe E6353 ... either "2" or "3" ( Slavo-British) sqns. in N. Russia, with RAF volunteers from the W. Front; a variety of aircraft including
Camels, DH9s, DH9As, Nieuports, 1/1/2 Strutters, & Snipes.


Snipe E8008 (probably not 4AFC)... was with 43 Sqn RAF returned from Eil ( Koln) 23/8/19.
You can just see their sloping bars and letter ("Z" ?). It's in their history.
4AFC's Snipes are listed on "ADF Serials"; they had a short vertical bar in front of the cocarde with a letter or number to the rear.
Regards
Nick

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello Nick,


Thanks for the reply and the helpful additional information. It can be very different to judge the accuracy of the sellers information (re 4 AFC) though in truth I should have crosschecked with the ADF page.


Here are another couple of Camels:


Sopwith F.1 Camel B9233 5 TS

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sopwith-Camel-Biplane-B9233-Crash-Large-Original-Photo-BZ829/393177570577?hash=item5b8b359d11:g:QfwAAOSwpZtgQi8 w


Sopwith F.1 Camel D6447

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-WW1-photo-Royal-Flying-Corps-6-Squadron-Sopwith-Camel-WW1-RAF/114717676178?hash=item1ab5b4d292:g:wBAAAOSwALxgRSr Q



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hi Clint

Agree with Nick, E8008 came nowhere near 4 AFC.

Regarding the Camels, my version of what happened to B9233 is that it was being collected by an 80 Sq pilot (2/Lt Oldridge) from No 5 TS. On 26 Jan 1918 he crashed and was killed. Two reports exist and it is not possible by me to see where this is, so I don't know which version is correct.

D6447 was with No 72 Sq when it was dubbed 'Susan' (Sep 1918 is a fixed date)
No idea from where the original caption writer got 6 (N) Sq from. Not a single source of mine claims that.

I hope for the buyers sake that the quality of the actual photos sold by this "throughtheireyes" are far better then they appear on ebay....

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hi Stig,


Thanks. I deduced that D6447 was with 72 Squadron when the photo was taken.But good to have confirmation.


I'm not claiming any certainty about the fate of B9233. I used http://www.rcawsey.co.uk/Acc1918.htm as my source and he wrote 5 TS.But of course no detail about the machine being picked up by a 80 Squadron pilot.


I must say these photos come from an unusual photo album.The pilot seems to have got around a lot.. I must agree the photo quality is a bit variable,which is why I stuck a general link in the thread on the Bristol aircraft rather than continuing to post by manufacturer as per usual.Alsoo too many posts!!!


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a nice photo of Sopwith Schneider 3788 at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/164982663666...MAAOSwmSdhADvb


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith Pup B5357 at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334099974...0AAOSwjG9hCVzn


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of the frequently photographed Sopwith Camel B5417 of 54 Squadron at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234114491...oAAOSwyrZhBogI


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hi Clint. The Camel pilot was 2/Lt Manley POW, quite a lot of details here.
Also a colour profile and photos on "Wingnuts" p.14.
Regards
Nick



https://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/s...d.php?p=723651


http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/vFA3E...structions.pdf

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a nice photo of French Sopwiths of the Ecole d'Aviation de Tours at:


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/362406762893...IAAOSwzIJbZ0RW


and further french Sopwiths at:


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/362372587920...kAAOSw--1bOPYB



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are photos of the following Sopwith aircraft:


A french Sopwith 1 ½ Strutter of SOP 107
https://www.ebay.de/itm/234142628243...8AAOSwNBthGo9t

A Sopwith 1 ½ Strutter of the USAAS
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11493780263...EAAOSwCaNhGWYh

Sopwith F.1 Camel C6752
https://www.ebay.com/itm/37369073581...cAAOSwDHZhHrm2


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith Triplane N5358 of 10 Squadron RNAS at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234129814...cAAOSw-M9hEUR3



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Clint Camel C6752 was with 22 TDS at Edzell, near Montrose (Scotland); stalled on turn no engine and spun into ground.
2/Lt E C E Derwin killed.

Nick

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

You mean 26 TDS Nick?

No 22 TDS was at Gormanston and as far as I can see did not use any Camels.
All my sources claim C6752 was with 26 TDS when it crashed.

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Thanks Stig. A bit of a mystery, both "Kingston Aviation" and "Air History" say lost with No.22 in Scotland and the latter says Derwin was with both 22 and 32.

I though 22 was in Egypt and 32 was Australian, with 26 in Scotland ! The CWGC site has Derwin killed with 32 and buried in Plymouth, S. England where his parents lived.


I checked Alan Lake's "Flying units of the RAF" he says 26 was formed with 2-seaters in Scotland in 1916, disbanded in Aug. 1918 to become No.22 at Narborough.
I'm not too bothered I think it's enough that Derwin got a decent burial here unlike many others.


Regards
Nick

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Nick

I don't have any of the sources you list.
Are you sure you are looking at Training Depot Stations? To me it sounds like you and others have checked Training Squadrons and not Training Depot Stations.

As per Air Britain's Camel book, the unit operating the aircraft when it was w/o was 26 TDS at Edzell. The aircraft had previously belonged to 32 TDS at Montrose.

Checking (again) Air Britain's book Flying Training and Support Units since 1912, these Depot Stations were beginning to form in late 1917 from basic Training Squadrons, so if I take 22 and 26 TDS they state the following

22 TDS: formed 1.8.1918 from No 26 and 69 Training Squadrons at Gormanston. Became 22 Training School 13.4.1919
26 TDS: formed 15.7.1918 from No 36 and 74 Training Squadrons at Edzell. Disbanded 25.4.1919

Looking at 22 Training Squadron, yes it was in Egypt and became 60 TDS on 1.12.1918
Looking at 32 Training Squadron it was an AFC unit and formed at Yatesbury.
Looking at 26 Training Squadron it was formed 22.5.1916 from 44 Sq at Turnhouse. It moved to Harlaxton on 22.9.1917 and Narborough 3.2.1918. It was disbanded into 22 TDS (as per above)

Even if I don't "do" individuals, I agree with your last statement.

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

You are quite right Stig, 2 distinct designations. Odd that Derwin's War Graves certificate has 32 TDS but maybe just not up-dated.


Thanks for the explanation.

Nick

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

No worries Nick

Nothing I know by heart, just by checking my sources.

I have no idea why the War Graves states what they do. To me it is more important that even the obscure individuals are actually remembered.

To be honest, I doubt neither Derwin nor his relatives bother about which unit he belonged to....

I have the utmost respect for your knowledge Nick, no doubt about that!

All the Best
Stig

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are two photos of a Sopwith Dolphin of the Machine Gun School,with (too myself at least) an unusual removal of the front of the engine cowling :


https://www.ebay.com/itm/35373575959...UAAOSwD~phcalm


https://www.ebay.com/itm/35371875923...QAAOSwa~lhVgAu


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Clint it's the first prototype Dolphin before the cowling was re-designed ( I don't think it had a serial marked on).



Nick

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hi Nick,


Thanks for the information. So did the prototype go on to serve with the Machine Gun School or is the photo caption incorrect?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

The RFC Machine Gun School was disbanded 13 Sept. 1916 to become the "School of Aerial Gunnery" at Dymchurch; on 1 Jan. 1917 re-designated as " No.1 (Auxiliary) School of Aerial Gunnery".
The prototype was tested at Martlesham Heath in early June then flown to St. Omer on the 13th by Henry Tizard. Looks like the photos were taken sometime in June, the stamp says MG School but by then that was named as above ( I suspect it was just a change of name). Possibly taken on the S. coast before going to France for further evaluation.
To add to the mix, the "Advanced Air Firing School" was formed within No.1 on Jan. 1 1917.
Nick

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Just a thought. At St. Omer the Dolphin was evaluated against 56 Sqn's SE5s , there's one parked next to it.
Nick

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Nick

According to Cross & Cockade the Dolphin photo was taken at Kingston.
There is a similar photo in their Dolphin book with the same building in the background.
My guess is that the School just issued prints from negatives they got from somewhere. Seems they didn't bother much about the name change either since they kept their stamp....

Air Britain claims the School of Aerial Gunnery and No.1 (Auxiliary) School of Aerial Gunnery were all at Hythe. From where does Dymchurch come from?

Cheers
Stig
PS: The C & C book does not give any Dolphins as ever used by any Gunnery Schools

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hi Stig. No I don't think they were, the prototype must have gone to St. Omer from Martlesham. There was too short a time period for it to have any gunnery training ( or need really).
Hythe and Dymchurch were names for the the same location (the ranges were at Hythe); also called "Palmarsh" in some Kent County records which was a part of Hythe.
I've got relatives at Kingston-on-Thames probably near the old Sopwith factory.


Regards
Nick

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of the Sopwith L.R.T.Tr Triplane at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/37376962063...oAAOSwgLxheBtT


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith 5F.1 Dolphin C.3905 of 79 Squadron at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/194548389890...kAAOSwDuFho3gF


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Nice shot

Must have been just after its landing behind enemy lines 23 March 1918 after being hit in combat east of Peronne.
First Dolphin combat loss
Pilot 2/Lt Clarke made POW.

The aircraft itself deteriorated quickly since other photos show the Germans quickly took care of the rubber from the wheels and dismantled it.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter 7785 at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255314852...QAAOSwIpFh1YCt


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Sopwith Triplane N5427 of 1 Sq RNAS at :


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/234392577008...4AAOSww6Fh8DHH


This photo may have been seen before as it is one of the options for the Wingnut Wings kit and a colour profile can be seen at:


http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/produ...tid=3039&cat=3


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Sopwith
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo a a two seat Sopwith Camel F1946 of 5 AFC at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/11599073780...UAAOSwvA1lYtYw


and Sopwith Snipe E8084 of 43 Squadron at:


https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread.../#post-1895890


Regards,


Clint