Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

I don't think the 10ABS was a component of the 23AB Group, their assigned units at Alaskan Air Base were HQ, 24AB Sqn. and 31 / 32 Material Sqns, at Elmendorf.
Actually there was a "P-37" at Elmendorf ( presumably one of the YP-37s for service testing---38-477 was at Ladd Field Dec. 1 1941). It wasn't there on April 1 1942.
Incidentally this is the AC Technical Training Cmd. insignia seen on Air Base sqns., on one of their Christmas menus.


Nick

https://picturingmeteorology.com/hom...christmas-1943

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are a number of photos of USAAF aircraft


Among the more unusual are:


Douglas B-23 Dragon


https://www.ebay.com/itm/30433268188...IAAOSwXgZh7tL9


Sikorsky R-4B


https://www.ebay.com/itm/37390187845...4AAOSwnfRh7sk3


Also for sale are:



P-40,P-38 & F-5


https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item...kw=P-&_sacat=0


Also P-39


https://www.ebay.com/itm/15481061926...0AAOSwJWBh7072



B-17,B-24,B-25,B-26


https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item...kw=B-&_sacat=0






Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are a series of photos of destroyed US aircraft presumably from the Philippines based on the types shown O-52,P-35 etc


https://www.ebay.com/itm/26662916236...wAAOSw575lrf0q


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Clint the only one I can definitely ID is the P-35A; these are the May 1940 designators many planes still carried in late 1941 ( they had started to be camouflaged as on the B-18s). "4MP" is the 4th Composite Group - M= Miscellaneous, P = Pursuit ( probably the 17th, their colour was white but black on unpainted as on the "A" Flight band). The 4th CG was disbanded in Nov. 1941 and aircraft dispersed.
The 17PS was known as the "Consolidated" Sqn. at this time no doubt due to the situation in the P.I. One of their O-46s was coded "4MP / 69".

Correction. More likely to be 34PS, they still had P-35s when the airfields were attacked. Apparently a shortage of spray guns on Luzon meant some planes not camouflaged. The high number "80" suggests the fifth Pursuit Sqn. in Group.

The O-52 would be 2nd OS, they probably still had a few O-46s. The old B-18s were used for various duties including transport, they seem to be in the process of camouflaging. There were some A-27s too, scheduled for Siam but kept for instrument training still in Siamese colours.


Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are a number of photos of early war aircraft from the collection of a US Marine named Hicks,although the majority of the photos are Army aircraft. Representative is this flightline of Boeing P-26


https://www.ebay.com/itm/39595281225...QAAOSw19VnShnu



All the photos can be found here


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_dkr...+hawii&_sop=10



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

There is one obvious Navy aircraft in the collection, the Douglas R2D-1,9621, at Floyd Bennett, New York.

This aircraft entered service with the Marines in October 1938 and was dbr in an accident on 2 March 1940, so it is possible that Hicks was serving on the East Coast at that time, possibly moving to Hawaii in 1941.

The final photo, with the Grumman Hellcats, must be 1943/4.

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

The seller states all photos are from 1942-43 which obviously is wrong.

I am also surprised to see basically all aircraft carrying such old markings and wonder if most
of those are rather from the 1940-41 period? Or was Hawaii very late to implement the new
marking system?

Also George, do you have anything on the R3D coded 7?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

I wonder whether it might be a Hickam-based US Army DC-2?

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Could be George

The seller says Hickam and very little of any markings are actually visible.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Stig. the tail designators can date the photos; Nov. 1937 to May 1940 letters for unit role over a/c number eg. in the photos B-18 marked "BE" over 49 was a/c 49 from the 5th BG (E is 5th letter, B =bomber); A-12 marked "AR" over 54 was a/c 54 from the 18th Attack Sqn. (R = 18th letter). A-12 "KR" over 16 was a/c 16 from the 18th Air Base Sqn., "K" = ABS.
From May 1940 to camouflaging in 1941 a simplified system, ie. a/c number over unit and role; eg. P-26 no.41 over 18PG. in the photo = 18th Pursuit. Date 1940 with full command colours, stripes and Sqn. insignia, and not yet painted.

Some Army planes on Dec.7 were still not camouflaged.


Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Thanks Nick

Yes I have that, hence my surprise the photos should be dated 1942-43.
No idea if Hawaii was extremely late in changing to the new system or not....

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Stig. Some of the planes not delivered camouflaged from the factory from 1940 like P-40s and B-17s were in the process of being painted when designators would have been revised (ie. low-vis). I thought you might like this official account which includes SERIALS in the Maintainance Records!

Regards
Nick


https://media.defense.gov/2010/Sep/1...100917-040.pdf

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hi Nick

I am not talking about the colours used. I am talking about the markings.
At some point the USAAF began to show the tail numbers (s/n) instead of the unit code on the fin.

By 1942 (if the seller is correct) all USAAF aircraft should have been marked in that way.

That is why I think that most photos are from the 1940-41 period unless USAAF in Hawaii was
exceptionally late to adhere to the new policy/marking rules.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

The tail marking was changed to showing the serial (radio call) on 28 Oct. 1941 in T.O.07-1-1A though recommended previously in April and August by Maintainance Command; not much time to re-paint before Dec.7 (assuming they had paint stocks). The planes in Clint's photos have 4-position wing stars which were reduced to top left-bottom right on 22 Oct. 1940 (Spec. 24114) when camouflage was also introduced--which was speeded-up after PH.

Photos most likely before then, sometime in 1940 as you thought except for a couple.


Regards
Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Thanks Nick

Just the details I wanted in writing!!!
Now where shall I store that info so I remember it to next time....hmmm? :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

George. I reckon Douglas no. "7" has the larger vertical tail of the Army C-33 cargo version, also a coloured (red ?) nose number I don't think an R2D would have ( all remained in US). As the seller bought some of these photos they could come from anywhere. There were 2 C-33s with the 19th. Transport Sqn. at Hickam on Dec.7 but the squadron wasn't activated until Jan. 1941 and the photo pre-dates that (they are not actually listed in Seventh AF records, both were damaged but repairable). Probably one of the 18 C-33s in the States somewhere.



Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are a number of photos of P-39 Airacobras and P-47 Thunderbolts of the 35th Fighter Group. Representative is this P-47


https://www.ebay.com/itm/15656602433...Bk9SR4SZoNj0ZA


Further P-47 photos are here


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_dkr...=1&_nkw=p%2047



P-39 photos are here


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_dkr...=1&_nkw=p%2039



Regards,


Clint