Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello Stig,


Thanks. Nice spot. I believe however, that I still see the central prong of the E before the fuselage cross.It appears to have both styles of marking at the same time.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are the following aircraft :


Bucker Bu 131 SE+LX of FFS A/B 62


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...wAAOSwtBNgKTTq


Can some please confirm that FFS A/B 62 is the unit shown here as SE+LX served with a number of other flying schools? Though it does look like the twin towers of the FFS A/B 62 emblem.


Junkers Ju 87A CE+LV ?


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-2-WK-Fl...EAAOSw8ZFgKXB3




Morane Saulnier MS.230 RC+QT


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...YAAOSw7AxgKS-O




Luftwaffe Photos on ebay


https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from...=15502&_sop=10

https://www.ebay.it/sch/i.html?_from...biplano&_oac=1

https://www.ebay.fr/sch/1/i.html?_fr...Desc=0&_sop=10



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Dornier Do 18 H PZ+NI at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-DO-18-W...IAAOSwgQJgKcHs


This machine is known to have served with FFS (See) 1,FFS (sse) B 17 and FFS (See) C 17.I'm not sure if it is shown just visiting Heiligenhafen in the photo or whether it was also attached to a unit there.I've looked at Larry de Zeng's work at:


http://ww2.dk/Airfields%20-%20Germany%20[1937%20Borders].pdf


and no obvious unit stands out for Heiligenhafen.




Luftwaffe Photos on ebay


https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from...=15502&_sop=10

https://www.ebay.it/sch/i.html?_from...biplano&_oac=1

https://www.ebay.fr/sch/1/i.html?_fr...Desc=0&_sop=10


Alternatively enter 'flugzeug militaria' in the ebay.de searchbox.



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are the following photos:


Bücker Bü-133 DC+EA

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-BU-133-...8AAOSwK61gKx-i

Focke Wulf Fw 44 PT+NI

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-X2-LOT-...QAAOSwEBdgKx4C

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-X2-LOT-...MAAOSwbgNgKx12

Heinkel He 49 D-ILMA


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-HE-49-W...YAAOSwUp1gKxyy



I guess strictly speaking the last photo doesn't belong here. It does however, give me the opportunity to ask if any of the He 49 are known to have survived into wartime?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Interesting Clint

My initial reaction to D-ILMA was, it can't be.
I know it is registered as such (a He 49), but looking at it, it does not look like
the HD 49 as built. Only a single one WNr 371 is supposed to have been
constructed by Heinkel and this one is very different.
Was it at one point re-built with new engine, new supporting struts and new
fin (He 51 style), thus warranting a new civil registration?
Was a second, unknown prototype built, and then by whom? No WNr from
Heinkel's production line is awailable. No gaps as far as I know.
Can it even be something totally different?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

D-ILMA was He 51 V4, which was tested by E-Stelle Travemünde.


Regards
Dirk

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

That was very interesting Dirk

You don't happen to have the WNr for it?
I am also seeking the WNr for the He 51 V3.
Again there are no obvious place for any of them.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Thanks for the replies on the He 49.Dirk, could I ask over what time period the He 49 V4 was based at Travemunde?


Meanwhile here is another Luftwaffe maritime aircraft used in a training role, Dornier Do 16 S6+H82. I wonder, given the He 59 in the background of Küstenfliegergruppe 106 whether despite the prewar code on the Dornier the photo was not taken during the war? Its at:



https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-DO-WAL-...oAAOSwrg5gLGoU



Luftwaffe Photos on ebay


https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from...=15502&_sop=10

https://www.ebay.it/sch/i.html?_from...biplano&_oac=1

https://www.ebay.fr/sch/1/i.html?_fr...Desc=0&_sop=10


Alternatively enter 'flugzeug militaria' in the ebay.de searchbox.



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello Wolfgang,

thank you for identifying ULM.
In my opinion there are only two possibility's for the complete Stammkennzeichen.
VB+YY - early export to Hungary
GC+YY - no entrys !
DC+YY - crashed in 1942 (JFS 4)
KJ+YY - no entrys !
DQ+YY - its a Ar96 B-3
late NR+YY and VE+YY build >1943 - with camouflage

i´m not an expert in markings but i think its not JG 106, because Ar96 markings from this unit are always on fuselage.
"red? 108" on hood has no resemblance to the known markings from ZG 101 but is very possible.
First i thought it was NAG 102, but this unit was far away from Ulm (Brieg, Poland) and is not longer my favorite.


Grüße
Andreas

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

D-ILMA is given with c/n 996 in this report from E-Stelle Travemünde, dated 03.Oct 1939. The aircraft is given as ready to scrap.
Another report from E-Stelle Travemünde from Sep 1936 has D-IUPO as 996.
This report does not give a V-number on the bird.
Unfortunately I have no informations about He 51 V3.


Regards


Dirk

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Thanks Dirk

Really very interesting!
All I have for WNr 996 is that it was the first He 51 D built and carried the registration D-IUPO.

The odd thing is then that Heinkel assigned their Versuchs nummer a bit odd, since V5 and V6 have been reported as WNr 994 and 995 respectively, but that might be date related.

The photo, as far as I can judge, of D-ILMA is that it carries a non-regular engine, which may point to it having been rebuilt at some later stage.

Does anyone else have an opinion or does everyone agree that WNr 996 was the V4 initially reg D-IUPO, rebuilt and re-registered as D-ILMA?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Thanks Dirk for the additional information on He 49 V4. So it did survive until WW.II just, not in a flying state one assumes.However,had it not become the He 51 V5 by this time? I'm not saying this is definite but Manfred Griehl in the Typenkompass volume on Heinkel reports this to be the case and gives a Werknummer of 430 (which does look a little odd).



Stig,I'm not going to pretend I know, but I can't see why the RLM would build a He 51 D-IUPO and then following alteration of the aircraft redesignate it with an earlier designation.Also what do you have for the registration of Hs 123 V8?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hi Clint

Not sure why you keep calling D-ILMA a He 49 V4.
As per Dirk's initial response, the Travemünde documents state it was a He 51 V4.

Also per Dirk's answer, the Travemünde documents quotes the same WNr 996 for both D-IUPO (in 1936) and D-ILMA (in 1939)

All I am doing is trying to correlate these two stated facts.

With regard to Manfred Griehl, he has, unfortunately, taken a lot of Flak for his published data. I am not even going to quote what some of my German contacts have said about him.

I checked two books about Henschel, both published in 2011.
Hs 123 V8 (Griehl) WNr 0266 (ex V2) D-IUPO
Hs 123 V8 (Wartmann) WNr 0266 (ex V2) D-????

As far as I know, nobody else claims the Hs 123 V8 to have been D-IUPO.

But, I have not seen any photo of anything carrying the latter registration, so what do I know?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

The D-IUPO reg.is seen on a He 51 It was an EBay.

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

That was interesting :)

I have not seen it. Care to attach it please?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Wow :)

Thanks a lot!

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are the following photos:


Dornier Do 23 VB+TK


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-DO-11-D...MAAOSwmWhgLwGy



Klemm Kl 35 D SJ+EC FFS A/B 124



https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-KL-35-F...wAAOSwH1JgLwye


Then several lots of photos:


Lot 1


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-X-7-LOT...wAAOSwHzRgLwBP


Lot 2


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-X-7-LOT...kAAOSw3qVgLwYH


Lot 3


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-X-7-LOT...sAAOSwOMVgLwjx


Lot 4


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-X-4-LOT...EAAOSw-JBgLvWf

The last lot has a photo of a Fieseler Fi 5R. Does anyone know whether any of this type entered service with the Luftwaffe whether as trainers, hacks or anything else. I’ve seen the Stkz SE+UB for a machine operated by Fieseler, but that is the only one with a Stkz I’m aware of, are there more?




Luftwaffe Photos on ebay


https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from...=15502&_sop=10

https://www.ebay.it/sch/i.html?_from...biplano&_oac=1

https://www.ebay.fr/sch/1/i.html?_fr...Desc=0&_sop=10


Alternatively enter 'flugzeug militaria' in the ebay.de searchbox.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a machine , seemingly with the markings WL-ELKC at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-Lu...gAAOSwUIhgL7Q5


I'm in two minds about the type of aircraft shown. So if someone could assist I'd be grateful.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

WL-ELKC was a Klemm KL35

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello Tony,

Thanks for the response. I assume that you already had the serial in your database. Beyond this, given what can be seen on the photo, that is not a great deal of the whole aircraft, would it be possible to differentiate a Kl 35 from a L.25 just on the visual impressions? What should I look for, in future for id purposes? This was the nature of my difficulties and tbh, I also wasn't sure until your reply that it wasn't a Bu 180.

Regards,

Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are the following aircraft:


Dornier Do 17 GA+ID Unit?



https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-FLUGZEU...cAAOSwGOtgLipJ


Klemm Kl 35 PM+XT


https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-FLUGZEU...sAAOSwsOFgLhtI


Messerschmitt Bf 109 E-3 GD+GX JFS 7


https://www.ebay.de/itm/2x-FOTO-FLUG...AAAOSwGm1gLjoG


Messerschmitt Bf 109 **+CA JFS 7

https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-FLUGZEU...YAAOSwu2dgLjrb


North American NA.57 KR+IP


https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-amerika...oAAOSwz0JgLki4


North American NA.57 SG+IX FFS A/B 7


https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-amerika...MAAOSwclNgLknq


https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-amerika...AAAOSw4UVgLkhP



https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-amerikanische-BEUTE-FLUGZEUG-North-American-NA-64-01/254871920411?hash=item3b578cdf1b:g:a64AAOSw6phgLkY p

https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-amerika...MAAOSwclNgLknq


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hi Clint


I already had the reg from a FB, you can just make out the distinctive "gull" wing in the photo that only the KL 35 had


Tony

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Tony,


Many thanks. I shall try to take the advice on the wing on board for future 'mystery Klemms'.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hi Clint
If you need the Putnam book "German Aircraft of WW 2" send me a pm


Tony

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hi Tony,


I have it thanks and many more works with either photos or illustrations of the Kl 35 - it didn't help. I think part of the issue was that the tailwheel is well hidden by the long grass in the link I posted and so looks like a skid hence my uncertainty as that was, of course a feature of the L.25 vice a wheel on the Kl 35.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Mister,
If you start to believe without checking what the seller is writing ...
1st. (which is the more obvious) he is selling a magnificent JG27 F-4/Trop saying it is a JFS7 machine taken at Nancy ! (sic)
2nd. The D-1 "Rote 25"+CA is not a JFS7 kite but a JG107 one taken during 1943 as attested by the Black crosses style.
3rd. GD-GX is what you want but not taken at Nancy.
Hope it helps.
Your faithfully,
FB


NB: GD+GX flown by Uffz. Josef "Pepi" Strümpf for a while but not in JFS7 as it seems (And it's not a new picture)

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hi FB,


Thanks for the correct information on **+CA.I'm always grateful for any corrections.Personally I usually need the full Stkz in order to check whether details given by a seller stack up.



Having said that the JG 27 F-4/Trop was rather more obvious, which is why I didn't post it.


Edit



Here another Bf 109, Bf 109 E-4 of either JFS 2 or Jagdgruppe Losigkeit


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...wAAOSwjxRgMDF8


Over to you FB.



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Frank

Out curiosity where was the photo taken? Seller has a second photo with buildings in the background. A clue perhaps?
Since the 109s are your specialty, how do you nail this one as a JG 27 aircraft?
To me it is just an F without anything else to go by....:o

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hi Stig,
- If I remember well only JG27 had a wave for III. Gruppe marking, didn't it?
- Its WNr. is 8542 and III./JG27 did receive 8540 to 8546 (without talking about 8539 went to 10.(Jabo)/JG27 and 8548 used by Gromotka in II. Gruppe)
Roughly, the photo has been taken - most certainely during delivery flight - between September 1941 and January 1942. Note both 8543 & 8546 have been accidented (destroyed by own forces) as early as December 1941.
And I don't know where the pic has been taken but in Italy I suppose, most probably.
Cheers,
Franck.

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are the following Luftwaffe aircraft:


Focke Wulf Fw 44 KE+NC

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Altes-Foto-F...EAAOSwp4ZgIUqj


Focke Wulf Fw 44 WL-ERZA


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-X-2-LOT...UAAOSwSQ1gMDkp


Focke Wulf Fw 56 WL-ISJA

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-FW-56-F...UAAOSwPPZgMDnL

Focke Wulf Fw 56 PF+NP

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-FW-56-F...AAAOSwURNgMDXB

Praga E.241 WL-****


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-BEUTE-F...IAAOSwjs1gMDA-



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Thanks Frank

Well, when it comes to the huge production types of the Luftwaffe (Bf 109, Fw 190, Ju 88 etc, etc) I cover them sort of a bit superficially.

I usually take the word of what other more knowledgeable individuals say about them.

So, thanks for the update! Appreciated :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hi Stig,
You are the most welcome.
I only try my best upon what is my only point of interest.
Cheers,
Franck.
PS: I'd like to have your email address through PM if you please.

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Been away visiting friends

Yes there are a few who still dare to meet you face to face.....thank heaven :)
PM sent

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are the following photos:


Zlin 212 GH+AJ


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-BEUTE-F...8AAOSw~SZgN~3w


Arado Ar 76 WL-IMHA & Focke Wulf Fw 56 WL-IJND


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-AR-76-C...wAAOSwgulgNXUY




Heinkel He 72 WL-EGIF


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-X-2-LOT...cAAOSwz0JgMaGL




Also somewhat o/t Gerner G.II Rb D-3037


https://www.ebay.it/itm/FOTO-FLUGZEU...cAAOSwyVBgM-sR


Did any Gerner G.II ever serve wuth the Luftwaffe?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of an Albatros L.75 Stkz **+NM,Possibly GJ+NM of FFS A/B 5 at :


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Photo-Q...YAAOSwfl1gOVm~

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Albatros L 75 perhaps Clint?

Pretty odd exhaust pipe collector.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Oops a senior moment I fear.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Junkers Ju 86 TR+NU at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/1-orginal-fo...wAAOSw7S9gPWaW


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Luftwaffe Trainers
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of a line of German training aircraft with a Praga E.241 SD+SX in the foreground at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/304115756137...IAAOSwh~NhIgHu


Which unit is shown here?


Regards,


Clint