Re: GLAD TOCH IS BACK!
 

Life is complete again!

TOCH's disappearance was a shock. It was also a powerful reminder of the central role it plays in our community. Very, very relieved and happy to have it back!

A huge "Thank You" to Ruy and any others involved in recovering this invaluable resource. Hope it remains as robust and dependable as it has been all these years.

Leon Venter

Re: GLAD TOCH IS BACK!
 

He Ruy,

Many many thx for saving TOCH.
A job well done.

Dirk

Re: GLAD TOCH IS BACK!
 

Just like to add my heartfelt thanks that TOCH is once more alive and well
. :)

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Everyone was suffering from withdrawal symptoms.. Kudos for getting this back up!

Re: GLAD TOCH IS BACK!
 

I'd also like to add my thanks to Ruy and anyone else who has been involved in recovering and restoring TOCH. I don't think that it's stretching the realm of credibility when I say that this site, and others like it, should really be considered as global treasures wrt the recorded knowledge of the times, technology and people who preceded us in the realm of aviation. The countless hours put into researching and validating our past and remembering those no longer with us by its members, you just cannot quantify or put a price on.

Again a huge thank you Ruy.

Paul

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Thank you very much to the staff !

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Thanks Ruy for bringing the Forum back again!

Cheers Hans K

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Great!
This year is Christmas sooner!

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Thank you to the staff forgetting the site running again.

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Thanks all, but the reality is a little less glamorous.

Most of the work was getting the ISP to recognize / accept that something was wrong on their side.

Unfortunately that was after the damage was already done and there is no practical way to go back.

More went wrong than went right, although we can be glad the forum is back online, it is not through some herculean effort. I am disappointed with the ISP, I am sorry that we lost the attachments in the process.

1. Yes there are back ups, but under the current circumstances it is not realistic to expect these to be restored
2. The forum is still dependent on legacy support from this ISP - they could end it if they choose to do so.
3. I have no clear plans for a migration or upgrade.

Again I am happy that the forum is back online and I am grateful for your enthusiasm and support, but I want to be transparent about the what happened.

I did not notice a database space issue last time I checked, which is infrequent I must admit and I was not warned by the ISP that my database was exceeding its allowed size. I still believe that it was the ISP that decreased the allowed size and that’s why the forum crashed one day to the other.

It was the ISP that blocked my database privileges. It was the ISP that had an issue returning the privileges as there was some kind of synchronization problem on their side. The experience leaves a bitter after taste and I actually cancelled another contract with them as I am not happy with their customer service.

I guess the saying is true, you get what you pay for and that’s double in the “automated IT” era.

So unless there is some upgrade path for TOCH, it is a case of enjoy it while it lasts.

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Hi,

nice to read and write here again :)

Regrads

Darius

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

So glad it works again. I was truly missing the forum.
Now we need a backup plan/procedure to inform ourselves when the forum is down again to avoid any heart attacks

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

my visitor numbers virtually doubled while the forum was down...but glad to see all's well again

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

THANK YOU to Ruy

Wonderful to be back here !

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Without 12 o'clock high, life is only half as exciting. Thank you for your outstanding work

All the best

Fred

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Am I the only one having visions of the Sword of Damocles?

Ruy, what can we, the members, do to help?

If the ISP/storage/upgrade/migration issues are all or in part financial in nature, I'm more than happy to put my money where my mouth is, as I'm sure many others are as well.

If help/assistance/time to do upgrades/migration are issues, I'm more than happy to volunteer my time and all of the assistance I can provide if that will help. I doubt I'm alone in this.

In short, this site is far too valuable to lose. How may we help?

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

That is the question. The reality is this: Without complete backup and without reliable storage in the cloud or elsewhere, this can happen again.

The other reality is when things are reduced to digital bits, as opposed to paper, if it goes it's gone. Possibly for good. Around 20 years of research gone overnight? Plans need to be made and implemented.

I mean if Facebook can go down for 6 hours then smaller, independent sites risk a total loss.

I have a lot of books in my library. If there is a fire or flood I know where to get more copies. In the case of sites like this, if there's no backup then nothing is saved.

Respectfully,


Ed West

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

I empathize with what Ruy is going through or had gone through. This is not an easy job.

These forums are NOT maintained by IT teams run by mega-corporations like Facebook.. they are dependent on single individuals with a finite set of IT Skills. These skills are sometimes just sufficient to 'Run the Engine' as long as the going is good.

It is stressful for the individual to keep maintaining the sites. If the site goes down for a day, there are mails and messages of concerns from different folks. the sense that you are letting down these members can be soul crushing when things are not working out.

Just to think of the future, or upgrading , and migrating it is a huge mental task. requires advanced preparation. Even when you are taking backups and all how do you ensure these backups are reliable and working, you have to plan a restoration exercise in a test site once in a while. not an easy task. can take up to half a day if everything works.. and if breaks just adds to the source of stress.

The latest Vbulletin software is Version 5. This site is Version 3. Upgrading the version to the latest is no easy task either. Elsewhere I tried a upgrade to Version 5 from 4 and the whole site broke. So we are stuck using an older version of the software but for how long? At some point Vbulletin will pull support and if the software breaks that's it.

Sorry I am just in a gloom and doom mood today

PS: I get a sense from Ruy's post that he is 'locked out' of this site? if there is way to get the 'keys' (To the webserver files) that is all is needed to 'migrate' to a better place
..

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Ruy,

I'm all yours if you need financial support to keep things going or migrating on a more stable platform.

Sincerely
Marc

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Hi Jagan,

That’s exactly what happened.

Because the dbase exceeded it maximum allowed space the ISP automatically reduced my privilege and locked the dbase. The only way to access the dbase was via phpMyAdmin and with limited privilege - I could empty tables etc, but not much more.

However after clearing the data I did not regain my privilege and the dbase was still locked.
That has now been solved.

Although I am ultimately responsible for proactively monitoring the capacity of my data usage, it is normal practice to receive warnings when you near your maximum allowed space / capacity - so you can act in time.

This is an old contract, I am not sure what the original parameters were, but I am almost certain that it was more than the current setting - which would explain the suddenness of the event.

There are back ups, I have made sure to save a week of back ups before the event. However as these exceed the dbase size there is no way to restore as a whole.

I do not stress test, the last time I did a full install of a back up is a decade ago, when there was sufficient space to install two versions of the forum.

Why not increase the size of the database?
I am running on a legacy package, because vBulletin 3.7.x requires an older version of mysql.

However the longer you wait the more complex the migration.
The problem started for me when vbulletin changed their license from lifetime to yearly. Also the price was hiked.

The forum is run on low cost, that’s why I don’t mind maintaining it.

Factors that come into play
1. Where to run a forum - ISP
2. Cost of ISP
3. On what platform to run the forum - the actual software like vBulletin
4. Cost of forum software
5. The ease of migration - If migrating from vBulletin to some other package

One option is going to the vBulletin service, but that’s imo pretty expansive and not something I would prefer.

Another in my opinion preferred option is to find a good forum package that has effective vbulletin database migration tools (for v3.7.x) and can be installed on the latest php (we are running on 5.3 extended support - current version is 8.0!!)

Strato has a few things going for it.
It is cheap, the new contracts offer much more space and should suffice for years to come.

The challenge is finding that forum package that suits our needs.

I am open to suggestions.

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

THANK YOU to all who worked hard to get TOCH running again!

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

A big thank you to Ruy and others who worked hard to get the forum back alive!

Cheers, Theo

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

HI Ruy

Upgrading to Vbulletin 3.8.11 would be the solution i think

vBulletin 3.8.11 requires PHP 5.6.0 through PHP 7.1.33 and MySQL 5.5.8+.

Even though you may not have yearly support from Vbulletin you can still login to members area of the site and download the latest version of 3.x.xx under your current license and upgrade. that might help. But i know its still a lot of work to ensure current site doesnt break

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

7.0 - is still considered legacy, but at least it is a more modern version of php.
Upgrading to 3.8.11 would probably be relatively easy.

This could be a short term solution, but I have to check if I can upgrade my package, without affecting the current legacy php5.3 install. I need enough space to have two forums running side by side to have a full test and fall back.

Will check with my ISP.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Ok, first obstacle.
In order to get 3.8.11 I need to renew my license for 4.x (or maybe later…).
That’s what started the decline in the first place, vbulletin business model.

They do not allow me to upgrade to v4.x
I have only the option to upgrade to v5.x

This comes in two main options
- License (your own install) @ USD 200-360,-
- Service (monthly / yearly on their cloud) starting @ USD 180,- per year (low traffic, like TOCH!)

License also requires ISP costs to be added at approx. USD 100/150,- per year.
Of course this does not include the necessary bagage and time to perform any migration / upgrade.

I wonder however if vBulletin is the right choice for an upgrade path?

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Ruy, if you decide on an upgrade or new software, I suggest that a crowdfunding appeal to the members would be appropriate (unless you’re rich, of course!).

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

I would fully support a request for $$$, in other words, happy to support. My knowledge about software of forums is zero.....my time is limited so happy to support in $$$

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

I was thinking € but I agree.

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Nick,
he was trying to type Dutch guilders (florin sign) I guess ;-)

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

I will gladly make a donation. Just say when and how.

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Count me in for $, €, £, or any other.

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Ditto on the €

Martin.

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

I would also contribute some money ($). The Forum is something I look forward to every day.

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Ruy,

Count me in money wise.

Have you considered phpBB?

Here is a link to a converter from vB3.x to phpBB3.

phpBB is open source so no cost for the software or ongoing licence.

Take a look around at other Web-Hosts. I have just moved my wiki to KRYSTAL on a shared server. But the advantages of this type of host is the functionality offered. I installed my site using Installatron (an app offered by the host) this now means that updates to the Mediawiki software are automated going forward - there has already been one minor update.

This is just a suggestion. I am sure there are other similar web-hosts out there offering similar functionality and support.

Re: Glad the forum is back
 

Count me in (€)! If this prevents another crash and saves the valuable information of this great website for the future it's money well spent!

Marcel