Re: Use of alcohol and drugs by aircrew?
 

I have also found that SLdr Wally McLeod RCAF was disciplined for regular drunkenness when on his rest tour in 1943 but also Ray Hesselyn, Ken Charney and Johnny Plagis (fellow Malta aces) developed an alcohol dependency post war. Whether this was PTSD or the more common result of no longer experiencing the thrill of combat and combating boredom I cannot say. I believe Sldr John Mungo Park of 74 Squadron also was drinking heavily before he was killed in 1941. The american ace Bill Whisner was disciplined more than once for his drunken outbursts.

Re: Use of alcohol and drugs by aircrew?
 

somewhat off topic: Valerio Borghese, on p.90 of "Sea Devils", (Italian Original: Decima Flottiglia MAS), writes the Italian crew of the maiale/pig manned torpedoes were fortified "with three tablets of Simpamine and a spoonful of Dextropur...as well as an injection of kidney tissue" for their attack on Gibraltar. What would be the benefit of the kidney tissue?
Richard

Re: Use of alcohol and drugs by aircrew?
 

The Norman Ohler book 'Blitzed' in really excellent on this subject

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blitzed-Dru...8131671&sr=8-2

Re: Use of alcohol and drugs by aircrew?
 

Some of the survivors of Merril's marauders in India after their operation got out of control drunk on a drink called "Bullfight Brandy" which was laced with marajuana. I don't know of any other US military personel in the CBI drank it.

Drug use was widespread in the US military during the later Vietnam war period late 1960s -1970s

Korean war ace M.J. Fernadez was KIC 17 Oct 1980 on Grand Bahama Island flying a plane load of Marajuana. see:
AAHS Journal Winter 1982 Volume 27 No 4 pages 316-318 and wiki

Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Hi guys

Apparently, the drug Pervitin was found in the remains of a crashed Luftwaffe aircraft in the South of England in 1940.

Do we know exactly which incident?

Excuse my ignorance if previously discussed.

Stay safe
Brian

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Make a search and you will find previus discussions.
Junker

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Junker

Thanks for nothing! Your response is becoming all too familiar on this Forum.

Brian

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Thanks Ed

I have a copy of Ohler's book but that doesn't exactly answer my enquiry.

Stay safe
Brian

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Pervatin was the most common drug in all the Medical Kits. Not sure of this exact report/incident, but it was not unique, as every Luftwaffe aircraft would have had some onboard.

;)

Mike

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Thanks Mike. I'm posting some medical kit images here:

https://twtext.com/article/1380152506588745729

https://fjm44.com/product/sanitater-...homann-berlin/

I notice Opium is among the items. Though not GAF specific, I hope others find this helpful.

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

If you are too lazy to write in the search field, then do not expect people to help you. Often seen by people who want others to do it for them.
Junker

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/pre...ar-speed/4337/

You've probably seen this Brian but just in case. It's an interesting doc.

regards

Keith

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Brian,
I was also a little perplexed by your response to Junker's post.
Simply putting Pervatin into the forum search box produces all the previous discussion:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/search.php?searchid=66658
I'm not sure why that qualifies for "thanks for nothing".
Andy

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Junker (why hide your real name?)

Please explain just what you mean by your rude and unwarranted remark:

If you are too lazy to write in the search field, then do not expect people to help you. Often seen by people who want others to do it for them.



I simply asked a simple question!

Keith: Thanks for the link but the video doesn't open!

Brian





Brian

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Spot on, Jörn, well said. There are more than a few on these forums who have never visited an archive (BNA, NARA, BA-MA, etc.), don't know German, rarely buy any books and then feed off of others who have invested their time and money on these things. Not good.

L.

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Larry

I'm very disappointed with your unrequested response.

I have written more than 30 WWII aviation books. I have over 1,000 aviation books in my library, and over the years have spent many, many weeks all told researching at the TNA. My latest book 'Air War over the Arctic' (imminently due) has taken 10 years of research, together with co-authors, and has involved translating both German and Russian language books and documents.

For one of my earlier books I travelled to Canada, South Africa and Zimbabwe (at my own expense) to interview veterans; I have also interviewed many dozens more on my own soil, and have corresponded with many, many dozens more (sadly, most no longer with us).

So, Larry, I don't need you or anyone else to tell me to "get some in". To do my own research. An apology is anticipated.

Brian

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Right, I'm declaring a ceasefire here.

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

My two cents.. This is stupid. You cannot buy every book on a particular subject unless you're wealthy. I think Brian C is correct and LdZ should offer at least a perfunctory apology. As an amateur in this field, I will never have the time to go to archives or buy every everything I find interesting. .

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

'Junker (why hide your real name?'


That is his real name

Re: Luftwaffe use of Pervitin 1940
 

Thread closed.

Columbian Marching Powder (1940 edition) A Postscript
 

Anyone keen to follow up non-recreational pharmaceutical use use might, I think, make progress through a contemporary but secondary source lurking in AIR 57, in which are to be found the minutes of the Flying Personnel Research Committee (FPRC). This organization started life in January 1939, and was at that time much concerned with the use of stimulants. They were very much aware of Wehrmacht practice by the summer of 1940, and I imagine that the discovery of Pervitin in a crashed a/c would have been communicated by the relevant bit of AI to FPRC and is likely to have attracted a passing reference in their meeting minutes. A useful tour of the scene is Pugh, James (2011) ‘The Royal Air Force, Bomber Command and the use of Benzedrine Sulphate’. Journal of Contemporary History. https://doi.org/10.1177/0022009416652717. Footnotes are useful with TNA references. Good hunting.

Use of Pervitin 1940
 

Hi guys

A vague enquiry:

Is there any record/documentation of any Luftwaffe airman captured during August/September 1940 'suffering' the affects of Pervitin on interrogation?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

That's a good question, although I'm wondering what sort of 'effects' those could be. Of course 'go-pills' are a staple of most modern armies, including our erstwhile 'friends' in Ukraine.

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

Here's an overview from the period:

https://thesecuritydistillery.org/al...are-in-1939-45

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

Thanks for the responses.

However, I am specifically interested as to how the British interrogators initially reacted to Pervitin-infused prisoners, especially those captured during August and September 1940.

Perhaps our respected and knowledgeable moderators are able to comment?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

Sorry, John’s away from his computer at the moment!

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

In all the K reports I have seen, only operational matters were generally commented on

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

Does B.C. mean were the Luftwaffe POWs juiced up on Pervitin more able to lie and deceive their interrogators than those who were not? Could the interrogator tell the difference between the two?

It would seem to me that by 1940 Pervitin had been around long enough in the Wehrmacht and German society to enable British military intelligence to have a pretty good grasp of the situation, and to have the subject quite well covered in interrogator training literature and handbooks. Accordingly, B.C. might want look for these training materials in the BNA holdings.

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

I'm not that familiar with prisoner interrogations from the BoB period (I've only looked at a couple at best) but if a prisoner was speeding or crashing, wouldn't the symptoms be superficially explicable in terms of adrenaline and post traumatic stress? If you've just been zipping round the sky at 500 km/h firing guns at people who shot back, you might be a bit hyped up. And if that came to a sudden stop and you narrowly escaped with your life, your mood might drop abruptly.

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

Hi there - some years ago I wrote an article on that topic and also interviewed medicine historian Peter Steinkamp about it.
He likened the effects of Pervitin to "driving under the influence of alcohol or other drugs. It does work somehow, but you not necessarily mind the rules that much." Otto Ranke, one of Germany's leading military physicians emphasized the use of Pervitin for staying awake while performing "long-lasting duties that are not physically demanding". Recorded negative effects were double-vision and seeing colors ("after the fourth pill" - officer of the 3rd Panzer Division), errors in judgement, circulatory problems and apathy when on deprivation.
Given all that, I think it's very possible that interrogation officers might not have been able to differentiate the behavior of a Pervitin-using POW from that of one who was drunk or simply disoriented/confused because of what has just happened to him.
Just my two cents.


Cheers,
Christian

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

Karl-Fritz Schröder, a Bordfunker with 13.(Z)/JG 5, told me that when he was shot down behind Russian lines, he spent three days heading back to the German lines. All he had to exist on was chocolate and pervitin. He hid during the day, and travelled stealthily at night. No sleep whatsoever during the whole time.

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

The usual German "flyer's chocolate" Scho-Ka-Kola was also caffeinated.

BTW: Beginning in 1944 the German army also ran a number of tests with cocaine, sometimes even mixed with methamphetamines or other stimulants. There were cocaine chewing gums and cocaine pills in operational use, at least with the midget submarine flottillas of the Kriegsmarine. So Pervitin was by far not the worst drug used by the Wehrmacht.

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

Perhaps the following will be of some use.

https://www.amazon.com/British-Inter.../dp/0752462717

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

Again my thanks for all contributions

John: what date was Karl-Fritz Schroder shot down, and who was his pilot?

Ed: book ordered. Thanks.

Larry: I take your point.

General: having personally not indulged in such drugs (alcohol, yes!) , how long would it have taken for the effects to have worn off?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

As a powerful stimulant, methamphetamine, even in small doses, can increase wakefulness and physical activity and decrease appetite. Methamphetamine can also cause a variety of cardiovascular problems, including rapid heart rate, irregular heartbeat, and increased blood pressure. Hyperthermia (elevated body temperature) and convulsions may occur with methamphetamine overdose, and if not treated immediately, can result in death.

The exact mechanisms whereby drugs like methamphetamine produce euphoria (the pleasurable high) are still poorly understood. But along with euphoria, methamphetamine use releases very high levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine in the reward circuit, which "teaches" the brain to repeat the pleasurable activity of taking the drug. Dopamine is involved in motivation and motor function and its release in the reward circuit is a defining feature of addictive drugs. The elevated release of dopamine produced by methamphetamine is also thought to contribute to the drug's deleterious effects on nerve terminals in the brain.


How long the effects last depends on so many things:
- what dose you take
- how soon you repeat the dose (has the first one worn off before you take the second)
- total intake before you stop
- have you taken it regularly before
- what other things you take with it
- general fitness
- body mass
- activity levels while affected
etc etc

If you were tired and took a reasonable dose, say towards midnight, then you would probably still be getting the benefit six or perhaps eight hours later. Some sources say you can see effects 12-14 hours after taking and even 24 hours later, but that does not account for taking several hits in a day

None of that was personal experience

Martin

Re: Use of Pervitin 1940
 

Thanks for the latest, Martin

Ed: the recommended book is interesting but not really helpful, but thanks all the same.

Cheers
Brian