Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

Dear Mermet,

Sorry for answering so belatedly, I had double shift work those las two days... Thanks for the thorough description of the colours; it gives me some indication.
One point is of special interest: thanks to the work of Marc Debroeck, Eric Larger, and Thomas Poruba, I now know that varying surfaces of the FW 190 D underwing were left in bare metal. I never heard this yet of the Me 109. Any other examples to your knowledge?

Thanks again

Marc

Re: Erla-built G-10 in AIRFOIL
 

Hello All,

Sorry that I haven’t responded sooner, but work and family matters must prevail.

Since my first posting on this interesting Bf 109, I have been searching for my transparency to no avail. If someone has the ability to scan the photo from AIRFOIL #1, please feel free to do so. I hope that it can be done so it shows some detail?

Steve Sheflin

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

Dear Steve,

Thanks for your answer and kind authorization. I'm crossing my fingers someone in this forum can attach this much sought after photo.

Thanks again

Marc

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

Hello to all,

Thanks to the kind authorization of Steve Sheflin, and the kindness of PhilippeDM who forwarded it, here is this much sought after colour picture of this factory fresh Me 109G-10; yes, this time, I'm fully convinced it is this subtype.

On the colour picture, one can by all means see the large wing bulge on the left wing, clearly identifying as a G-10 type. The lighting of the plane makes it real hard to recognize any other precise feature. That the plane is factory fresh is underscored by the white segmented spinner. The pciture being very dark, it is difficult to give an interpretation about the presence of Hellgrau 76 on the belly.

One issue is ominous: in Airfoil 1, the location is given as Frankfurt airfield; in the picture wich initiated this thread, the location is given as Grafenwöhr. And thanks to RolandF, we know now the location was either Amberg-Schafhof or Vilseck-Heringnohe. And, added dififculty, no G-10 production is known for the Vilseck Mtt factory...

Dififcult to put a clear synthesis. One point remains: this is a factory fresh Erla built Me 109G-10. And a pleasure remains: to have seen a - for me - new picture of a G-10, there will be never enough of those...as there are so few known.

Cheers

Marc

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

Hello all,

I've now a scan and i've tried to scan this musterious Erla's Bf 109G-10...
I hope that the link will work...

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...G-10_Erla_.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

Cheers,
Jicéhem

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

Dear Mermet,

Thanks a lot for your effort.... The link works just fine. it is good to see how colours differ between the two scans now available.

Thanks again

Marc

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

I am able to give some update concerning Messerschmitt activities at KZ Flossenbürg-Plankenhammer but unfortunately this does not clarify the situation.

According to Schmoll two fuselage production lines existed at Plankenhammer which were able to produce 12 fuselages per day together with their DB engines. The wings were produced at Flossenbürg, the final assembly took place at Vilseck-Weissenohe, where tail units and camo were added. This would mean that the distinctive large numbers of the fuselage W.Nr. could originate from the Vilseck plant to facilitate plane recognition for unskilled workers without the tail units having been attached..

But Plankenhammer was also busy with other activities and here I have to correct myself:
Dismantling of damaged 109s to gain spare parts("Zerlegebetrieb") and as repair factory for damaged 109s ("Industrieinstandsetzung")

This would mean that older 109 parts from earlier variants could appear at Vilseck airfield and receive their new or refurbished camo. New fuselages can be matched to older wings and vice versa; the history of W.Nr. 163824 comes in mind.

So the possibilities for the G-14AS are endless...

The end assembly of the G-14AS took place at Cham-Micheldorf airfield from October 44 onward. The distance Cham-Vilseck is the same as Cham-Regensburg. All factories are part of the dense Messerschmitt network spread across the Upper Palatinate. I quote: "...Teile wurden...je nach Verfügbarkeit...montiert. Eingebaut wurde das, was gerade da war. Stückzahlen waren gefragt, und da wurde in den verschiedenen Endmontagelinien, die über den gesamten ostbayerischen Raum verteilt waren, kein Wert auf die Einhaltung von Seriendetails gelegt..."


Regards

Roland

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

A profile interpretation has been done by Polish artists:

http://www.soundcity.pl/Kecay/Me109/17.jpg

Unfortunately the caption cannot be read properly. Seeing this camouflage I get the strong impression that this plane is an example having undergone repair by the Industrieinstandsetzung Flossenbürg-Plankenhammer. Certainly parts from the Flossenbürg production are incorporated in this particular 109. This dark, striped camo - similar to several late-war 262 camos - might have been able to match already painted intact parts having been taken over from 109s wearing a field-applied toned-down camouflage system.

Cheers

RolandF

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

Dear Roland,

Many thanks for your latest updates. The colour scheme si especially interesting as it does formalize the two tone segmented pattern; would it be kindly possible to quote the publication from which this colour profile stems?

As for your vivid description of Me 109 wing ribs still serving as enclosure posts next your hometown, it keeps on coming back in my mind. Any over leftovers from this huge and complex delocalized production line as buildings, storage halls?

Thanks again for your time and inputs

Marc

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

Dear Marc-André,

the publication is quite new and its complete title is:
"Captured Me109's" by Jacek Jackiewicz (color drawings and illustration) and Mirosław Wawrzyński (text), 176 pages, 399 black and white photos, 151 color side profiles and 32 three or four views painting schemes. Soft cover, text only in English. Entire book is published in color.

http://www.kecay.info/

Sorry, I thought this info would be included in the web title.

Concerning the 109 production - and repair, as I know now - I did not know how much my home region was involved in the fighter production. Having recently bought Peter Schmoll's "Die Messerschmitt-Werke im Zweiten Weltkrieg" I´ve found out the real amount of 109 and 262 manufacturing. In terms of 3rd Reich and WW2 it is hard to get an overwiew from close distance if you know what I mean. By chance a friend of mine is working on a 3rd Reich chronicle from our region and I made him aware of the involvement into Mtt activities - it was new for him. In connection with the KZ Flossenbürg it is a taboo theme and it takes a lot of confidence to get the people to talk about this time and let the sources speak. Being acquainted with the manager of the KZ Flossenbürg memorial I´ll try to sort out the true production locations and yes, I´ll have a look what´s left over.
To be honest, I´ve considered my friend´s tales about the origin of his parent´s fence as kind of bragging and only recently the real extent showed up. I am quite sure there´s more around but it will take some time...

Regards

Roland

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

Roland, have you checked documents from investigations of crimes against humanity? There should be some photos, including KL's work space. Possibly Ludwigsburg could be of help.

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

Dear Roland,

Thanks os much for all your updates! I was totally unaware of this book, which seems quite well documentated. Wondering if I'll have a go for it...

As for the discovery of remaining buildings, road and facilities, I fully understand all difficulties to which you are confronted. Vergangenheitsüberwältigung is one of the harder tasks mankind has to front. I'll be very grateful for every new fact and preserved facility or item. As an archeologist, I do have the feeling we have to take care of those remains as well, as the living memory is now fading out so quickly...

Thanks again for your input, you bring a wholly new insight about what it meant to crash build thousands of Me 109's back in 44 - 45...

Best regards

Marc

Re: A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS
 

I doubt that this a/c having undergone an repair by the Industrieinstandsetzung Flossenbürg - Plankenhammer. The Erla G-10's in this configuration (big wing bulge) were produced in the last two month before the production stopped. In the last weeks a lot of the produced a/c's were flown to different units. So I believe that's one of the fighters never arrived their unit from different reasons.

Regarding the location IMHO there isn't an proof that's Amberg or Vilseck. Maybe someone knows the locations in Grafenwöhr, Amberg, Vilseck or Frankfurt and say us where the picture was taken.

Best wishes
Rasmussen