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Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)

- Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8)

- - eBAy: Captured german planes (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=45190)

Karoband

26th March 2018 16:08

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 249791)

E8+GL of 3./NSG 9, flown in from Thiene, Italy at the end of April 1945.

Thanks, Nick

O.Menu

26th March 2018 23:52

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

and He 162 posted by Marc-André #915 is M-20 W.Nr.220003 found at München-Riem

Snautzer

27th March 2018 10:42

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Acroma-Libya-circa-1942 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Luftwaffe...cAAOSwuuRarr9n

David E. Brown

28th March 2018 04:07

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Jim and Nick,

Are you both referring to the Ju 87 in Marc-Andre's post #911? That machine is actually a Ju 87 C-0 "TK+HD", found at Brunnthal, and originally along side the nearby autobahn. It has a rare Eberspacher flame dampener over its exhausts, no doubt a machine thrown it the fray during the last weeks of the war.

Cheers,

David

Karoband

28th March 2018 10:38

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Hi David,

No, you have to log in to see the Ju 87 I posted in #917.

Jim

Nick Beale

28th March 2018 10:46

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by David E. Brown (Post 249885)

Jim and Nick,

Are you both referring to the Ju 87 in Marc-Andre's post #911?

Cheers,

David

No, I'm talking about the D-3 backed partway into a barn at Innsbruck-Hötting. It too has flame suppressors, plus a yellow "G" on the port wheel spat.

There are quite few different shots of it but sadly no one went inside the barn and got any!

David E. Brown

29th March 2018 04:01

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Jim, Nick,

Sorry about that! Yes, I logged on after viewing the page and now see the image. I think that is the earliest known image as it is haphazardly camouflaged with doors and some netting. A colour photo of the front shows the "G" on the spats to be yellow outlined in white, as are the two segments on the spinner. And yes Nick, such a shame no one got photos from the inside, or, after it was pulled out!

Cheers,

David

edNorth

30th March 2018 03:44

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.Menu (Post 249826)

and He 162 posted by Marc-André #915 is M-20 W.Nr.220003 found at München-Riem

Strange call full airfame M, have seen M was for scale Models (like wind tunnel models or Mockups etc.) not flying machines.

Nick Beale

30th March 2018 10:18

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by edNorth (Post 249999)

Strange call full airfame M, have seen M was for scale Models (like wind tunnel models or Mockups etc.) not flying machines.

M was marked on some aircraft found at Schwechat, see that attached piece of Report No. 53, No. 1 Field Intelligence Unit (Austria).

Steve Coates

30th March 2018 11:42

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

M for Muster rather than V for Versuchs.

edNorth

30th March 2018 12:42

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Coates (Post 250006)

M for Muster rather than V for Versuchs.

No, I think this might be in error. Muster means "Type".
M might indeed be Model(s), non-flying specimen, intended for windtunnel and structual trails - Just the text says so!
Old prototypes (like V5 here) also qualified. Gluing tests come to mind.

Steve Coates

30th March 2018 13:13

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

I'd understood (although I might be misremembering) that M was more of an Austrian designation system as opposed to V.

No problem with being proven wrong.

edNorth

30th March 2018 13:57

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Not everything written on Lw 35-45 is correct. One factor might be current trend to pubish without finishing the research.

red-star25

30th March 2018 14:17

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

M stands for Muster, as Steve thought.
The German meaning of Muster has different meaning, not only type, but also sample etc.
There is a "8-162 Muster-Uebersicht" from Heinkel on NASM Reel 2809 Frame 652 (Original in German Museum Munich), which gives the Muster-number from M1 up to M31 and the c/n, together with some other information's.
Why they changed the designation from V to M numbers is not clear.
I guess, that was done, because of the war situation, there was no time for a normal prototype testing and the testing was done during the production.
The results from this testing were incorporated into the series production.
Regards
Dirk

Steve Coates

30th March 2018 14:24

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Ed North said:

Quote:

Not everything written on Lw 35-45 is correct. One factor might be current trend to pubish without finishing the research.

As someone who does his fair share of digging at the coalface, both these points are a given. The difficulty comes in that in many ways your research is never finished as it is a constant quest to unearth new information, however, people do need to apply a cut off point for their writing. That's just the way it is.

For instance I continue to try and discover new material on helicopter development in Germany between 1930 and 1945. Since publishing my book, I have become aware of further archival sources which can possibly help me add to my knowledge and I am currently in the middle of a process to try and tick these off my list. This process will take me approximately 5 years because I want to get it right and feel that I have left no stone unturned.

ouidjat

30th March 2018 15:08

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by edNorth (Post 250016)

Not everything written on Lw 35-45 is correct. One factor might be current trend to pubish without finishing the research.

Quite interesting sentence!
...
You ought to say this to Prien, Lorant, O'Connel, Mombeeck, Ferdinando, Hitchkock ... Und so weiter
:)

edNorth

30th March 2018 16:12

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Steve; Will try find reference again. Thousands of pages to look at, again. Else apologize.
Stand corrected, see below.

ouidjat: Know this be true in case of Medcalf, unfortunately ... und so weiter.

Dirk: sent mail
Stand corrected, according to Dirk.

RudiS

30th March 2018 20:30

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

album with several captured German a/c:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Britis...19.m1438.l2649

Fi 156:
https://0vwb6g.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none

The seller was not only so nice to sent me better scans but also to give me permission to post them here:
Me 410:
https://0vu2xw.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none

Me 262:
https://0vuvga.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://0vxr0w.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://0vwuow.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none

Regards,
Rudi

Karoband

30th March 2018 21:35

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thank you once again, Rudi.

In your last picture, Me 262 WNr. 500443 shows clearly how the "5" was altered to a "6". Note the larger roundels and RAF fin flashes used at Schleswig.

Jim

RudiS

30th March 2018 22:23

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Received another photo from the seller of the album in #938:
Ar 196:
https://0vxkja.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none

Regards,
Rudi

ouidjat

31st March 2018 07:30

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thanks Rudi, you made it !

Hans Mcilveen

31st March 2018 13:31

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

1 Attachment(s)

Rudi,

Thank you for those wonderful pictures. Can you make out the unit code on the Me 410 in #938?
The Ar 196 in #940 probably shows the one example of this type that was used by Seenotgruppe 81: W.Nr. 285 T3+HM. See attached for a picture of the aircraft before the red cross marking was applied. Source Flugzeug 3/1986.

Hans

Merlin

31st March 2018 13:46

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

#938 Me 410 F2+FX from "Umrüstkommando Me 410", which was part of 2./Erg.Fernaufklärergruppe during 1944.

Hans Mcilveen

31st March 2018 13:51

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thank you Gerhard.

Hans

RudiS

31st March 2018 15:08

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Bf 109 in the UK:
https://0vvlaq.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-VINTAG...19.m1438.l2649

Regards,
Rudi

RudiS

1st April 2018 15:22

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Ju 88. Can Anyone ID this a/c?
https://0vvzjw.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-Bo...53.m1438.l2649

Regards,
Rudi

Marc-André Haldimann

2nd April 2018 10:37

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Dear RudiS,

STKz seems to be "?I+SW". Given the camouflage pattern and surrounding, i would bet on one of the dozens of derelict Ju 88-s at Foggia-Tortorella.

Cheers
Marc

Marc-André Haldimann

2nd April 2018 10:42

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Some new Me 262 shots along the Munich Salzburg Autobahn.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-GI-P...0AAOSwaVNawViV
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-GI-P...AAAOSwaNlawVhn
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-GI-P...UAAOSwB7JawVgl
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-GI-P...wAAOSwyHRawVfb
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-GI-P...YAAOSw8BRawVeX

Cheers
Marc

RudiS

2nd April 2018 13:35

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 250163)

Dear RudiS,

STKz seems to be "?I+SW". Given the camouflage pattern and surrounding, i would bet on one of the dozens of derelict Ju 88-s at Foggia-Tortorella.

Cheers
Marc

Thanks Marc. Very much appreciated.

Regards,
Rudi

edNorth

2nd April 2018 16:06

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudiS (Post 250131)

Ju 88. Can Anyone ID this a/c?
https://0vvzjw.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-Bo...53.m1438.l2649

Regards,
Rudi

PI+SW, brother of "The Commanche" PI+SU and PI+SX.
Flickr photo shows it in full.

RudiS

2nd April 2018 17:10

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thanks Ed, Very much appreciated.

Here's another Ju 88. Inscription on the back says "Gambut".
https://rqqjlq.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-Wreaked...19.m1438.l2649

Regards,
Rudi