Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Thanks Marc,
Have we seen the left side before?
Amazingly it has been previously IDed as "Schwarze 7" ! (Represented on a profile)

Cheers,
Franck.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

You're welcome, Franck ! Yes, the left side has been published in the JaPo G-10/U4book, p. 69. The "Schwarze 7" is plain to see, probably because of the peeling off of the younger yellow coat for the later applied "Gelbe 11".

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Here is the "Black 7" ! (sic)
https://me109.info/display.php?a=e&l=en&fid=4613
The same machine Black 7/Gelbe 11 is pictured page 69 of "Bf109G-10_U4 - Production & Operational. JaPo", left side, and, as expected, the Yellow 11 isn't visible, while:
"A dark blotch covering the original markings merged with the first digit of the new marking and gave an impression of a dark number 7" (sic)
Right, but why writing "original marking" and "new marking" ?
And why the same "Dark blotch" is visible on right side with same "7"appearance?
Then the killer sentence (as usual !):
"A closer examination" !!!! Meaning: You don't see it because we print the thing on a B...t paper but WE see it - using the-closer-look instrument - on original, indeed. ;)
...
Soooo, we got TWO "7" dark blotch, we can suppose the "original marking" was a Black 7 and the "new marking" a "Gelbe 11".
...
This said,
- Note the guys cleaned the exhaust stains before taking the picture (on right side) giving it a fake appearance.
-"Gelbe 11" isn't supposed to be 7.Staffel but 6. Staffel in II./JG52 as discussed before and elsewhere ...
Cheers,
Thanks for the links Marc.
Franck.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Thanks Franck !

Notice also the Bf 109 G-14/U4 W.Nr. on the tailplane, I missed it out until Stefan Junck made me notice it. Seems to be W.Nr. 511 863.

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hello Franck and Marc,
I too believe that “Gigi’s” tail was from a WNF-built G-14. I also think that its WNr. begins with “51” and that the fourth digit is an “8.” However, I was having difficulty with the third digit. I interrogated my database file and found two WNF-built G-14 WNr. blocks in the format of 5xx8xx: 5108xx and 5118xx. Finally, if the fourth digit is instead a “6,” then 5126xx can be added. This is all speculative as it depends on the fidelity of my database file, which is incomplete.
Respectfully,
Steve Sheflin

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Thanks for your insight, Steve. The next photo of that plane will hopefully solve this riddle.

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

A rare portfolio stemming from Uffz. Otto Twupak's heritage - he died 7 June 1944 as he stalled his Erla Leipzig built Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 412440 "Weisse 11" trying to regain altitude over Fl.Pl. Le Mans, France, under attack by 8th Air Force P 47's.

The first part of this set shows him aboard and around WNF built Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 15 772 "RH+JM" "Weisse 2", as he is being celebrated possibly at Wien-Seyring after 10 October 1943.

The second part does show him - either at Wien-Seyring or Frankfurt-Eschborn - in front and aboard an Erla built Bf 109 G-6 "Weisse 8" which shows all the features of a standard early 1944 G-6 with short radio mast and D/F loop. It's W.Nr. is uncertain as, for the known 4./JG 53 losses, two "Weisse 8" were lost in May 1944 : W.Nr. 412380 and W.Nr. 412447.

With all my thanks to Spektor for the pointer of the current historical media.com sale of those photos and Flugbuch von Uffz. Twupak which allows to precise an earlier eBay sale, 24 March 2017:
http://historical-media.com/id105c.htm

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

"Gigi" with a bit of Photoshop adjustment, although I still wouldn't want to give a definite opinion on the W.Nr.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Thanks Nick ! We thus can clearly read 5xx863, 510863 or 511863 being the best options. Placed under torture, i would rather vote for 510863.

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi there Gang,

We have here the best photo so far from RHAF Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 612 780 "Fekete 15", 101 Vadaszsezred, Neubiberg, seen in late 1945.

Source: ://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-photo-US-GI-View-Captured-German-MESSERSCHMITT-Me-109-Fighter-plane-15/154281637973?hash=item23ebe6f855:g:fiwAAOSwdLlf92G c

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hello Marc. Great job! Keep it up even though you may not have 5% of the aircraft built you have done more to organizing the history than most people who claim to be experts on the 109 subject. The work you are doing for the masses of people makes the history easier for them to understand. Keep it up!
Cheers,
Mark VIII.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

HI Marc,

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=728

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=729

forum.12oclockhigh.net/album.php?albumid=73&pictureid=730

I found this picture just posted by Spektor on the Me 262 thread of the modelforum.cz site. His link to the avaluer.org site led to the enlargement of the 109 and the back of the photo.

I have a selfish motive for posting. I am hoping that you or one of your experts recognizes the 109 and can tell me where the picture was taken.

best regards,

Jim

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi Karoband,

Thanks for your photos ! this is a new to me bird: it is with certainty a WNF built Bf 109 G-10. Given the mountainous background, location could well be Salzburg - or alternatively Wels, though I'm unsure if any 262 was found at the latter location.

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi Mark VIII,

Sorry for the delay, I only discover today - reason unknown- your praise. It is much appreciated - for a work in constant evolution.

Sincerely
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Thank you, Marc.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi everyone,
I hate to be a naysayer, but I rather think that the Bf 109 in Post #1052 is actually a Bf 109 G-14/AS. Note its apparent curved left refined cowling return and lower cowl bumps. Its oil filler hatch position would help confirm its identity, but I can’t make it out. Note too its large upper wing bulges, “G” DF loop location, short tailwheel leg, and underwing Morane mast.
Respectfully,
Steve Sheflin

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

... All of which would be consistent with a WNF-built G-10, no? As far as I can see, the cowling bulge also has the shape typical of WNF-produced machines.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Well,
Looks like a KG(J)54 machine?
I didn't know the russian troops did reach Salzburg and/or Wels...
Russian writing on photo's back and site caption says: "Luftwaffe Messerschmitt Me.262 and Me.109 Captured by the Red Army, 1945." (sic)

Cheers,
Franck.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hello,
I am apparently getting old and can no longer read. I read Erla instead of the clearly-written WNF. I humbly apologize for my error.
Respectfully,
Steve Sheflin

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

A WNF G-10/U4 it is ... But does someone able to read the Russian text on picture's back?

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Readable only this:

Первый реактивный самолет
участвующий в ___________________
________________________,Германия

The first reactive aircraft
involved in________________________
_________________________,Germany.

Ľubo.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Given the soviet soldiers and the kind of mountains in the background there are not many possible locations where these pictures could have been taken. Eastern Austria is more flat (IIRC), which leaves basically only Northern Bohemia or Soutwest Silesia. This also ties in with the known area of operations of KG (J) 6. Perhaps Reichenberg/Liberec or Niemes/Mimon.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Thanks Lubo. Not enough though for our purpose. Nice try anyway.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

I see a KG(J) 54 machine Christian. See known "Gelbe 2" and "Gelbe 3".
Why not Deutsch-Brod? But I don't know the landscape around! ;)

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Oops, somehow i had KG(J) 6 in mind. But anyway, this doesn't change much. Red Army soldiers plus a landscape like that indicate the area I mentioned. Okay, I guess somewhere in Thuringia might be possible too, but this Bf 109 very much looks like a Tisnov-built example, which would also point to Bohemia a little more.



The landscape around Deutsch Brod (as seen in JaPo's book on the Bf 109s there) looks not that mountainous.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

OK, Thanks Christian.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Franck, ChristianK,

Further to this KG(J) 54 machine - and the WNF Diana G-10/U4, location might well be Zeltweg. Hoping for a confirmation though.

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

The British found many Bf 109s at Zeltweg but no Me 262, so if that is the place, the Russians must have taken the jet away before they left on 21 July 1945.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi Nick,

Whatever Zeltweg (or Saaz btw) I did have the same thoughts BUT, in the mean time, I wonder if the British or the US where that stupid to let such machine in Russian hands...
Regards,
Franck.
PS: there is some kind of a factory in the far background, aren't we able to ID it?

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

The Soviets were there first, withdrew in July and then the British moved in. It was all part of establishing the different occupation zones in Austria.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Ups, my bad. I must be very tired or becoming dyslexic. Shame on me.
Regards,
Franck.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi there Gang,

As always, the Russian archives are full of unknown photographic material, like this overrun airfield between Elbe and Spree full with what seems to be Bf 109 G's and a lone Erla built G-6 or G-14.
https://vk.com/albums-140181428?z=ph...VUk2VDGsLVSpek

Any further details would be highly appreciated.

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi Marc, most of the other photos on this album page are captioned as being taken in Jüterbog - that helps pinning down the location at least a little bit.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

the central photo caption just says 'an occupied German airfield'

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

ChristianK, richdlc, thanks for your help.

Jüterbog-Damm or Jüterbog-Waldlager are thus a fair possibility.

Here another shot down Bf 109, most probably a G-10 as evidenced by the "D" painted atop the DB 605 D.
https://vk.com/albums-140181428?z=ph...otos-140181428

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

just spent an hour looking through those albums, they're great! The armour guys would probably lose their minds too...

please let me know if you come across any photos of He 219s or Hs 129s

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

You're welcome, richdlc. Will keep an eyes on those.

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

The latest ascertained W.Nr. for an Mtt built Bf 109 G-6:

Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 166207 "Schwarze 21", 11./JG 53 shot down and crash landed by Uffz Hubert Sommerhoff at Mölln, hinter der Alte Mühle , 11 September 1944. Strafed on the ground and burnt out, Uffz Sommerhoff WIA. Source: collection Bill Marshall via SDASM.

Original link:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasma...7718500716754/

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi there Gang,

A new to me Bf 109 G-5 photo is currently on offer. Any further information ?
https://www.ebay.de/itm/254952012648...4AAOSw8Epgf-Zh

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Thanks to George Morrison, over on Late war Bf 109's Group FB, we now know this is Bf 109 G-5 "Weisse 21" 1./Erpr.Kdo 25 at Wittmund, 25 June 1943. On the left is Uffz. Ulrich, who had just received the EK II; on the right, Uffz. Stawinoga.

The key for this ID is another photo from the same sequence published in Prien, Rodeike and Stemmer 1995, Bf 109 F, G & K Series, p. 135.

Cheers
Marc