Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Johannes,

Thanks - seems like inflation...

Can you please give your comments on Hptm Joachim Kirschner, Oblt Wolf Ettel and Hptm Werner Lucas? All were flying in II./JG 3. Thanks for your help.

Best regards,
Rob

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Rob

With regards to Kirschner, if he was honest he would be one of the best, don't know about JG3, but JG27 was pretty honest. His decorations came at convienient times.I have several unconfirmed for him.

With Wolf-Udo Ettel he got his Ritterkreuz at a convienient break in combat, and it came late i.e after 118 confirmations I would guess just because he claimed so many in a short time, then when he was killed the Eichenlaub caught him up.

With Lucas I believe he got his Ritterkreuz cheaply, and thus the Eichenlaub would be delayed until he would read the going rate of about 150 at the time, or slightly less if postumous.

Funny thing is that all JG3 top aces are quite obscure, I don't know why, and they seemed unable to transfere there skills at claiming Russian's into Western kills, (with the exception of Kirschner), perhaps it was the area they were deployed i.e within range of US fighters.

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Johannes if you don't mind ,some elaboration here
About Kircshner I remember reading that his multiple claims against P-38 in late 1943 when he was in JG27( along with Bartels's), before his death, are somehow dubious since they are not confirmed by post war research.
Unfortunately I don't remember other details.
About Wachowiak, I wonder what participation in battle he had in 1943-1944 in order to claim only, three more victories.
Furthermore, what about Tanzer ( 143 kills) and Eberhard von Boremski who I have him as a 104 victory ace.
Is there any chance a JG3 pilot namely Hans Shleef ( officially 99 victories) to have scored over 100 ?
...and finally you said that Dahne may have up to 128 kills, please do elaborate here.
I really thank you in advance and by all means keep up the good job

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Johannes,

Thanks for your info -

Yes, most the aces of II./JG 3 (the unit I am interested in) did obtain large numbers of victories in the East and were not able to maintain this level in the West. Very different air battles etc.

But Leopold Münster and Hans Grünberg were able to claim at some level.

II./JG 3 was transfered from the East at the end of July 43/beginning Aug 43 in order to defend Germany (Reichsverteidigung) and was stationed at Schiphol airfield from Sept 43 - Dec 43. Here the unit suffered large losses - lost two Gruppenkommandeure (Brändle and Lemke) and two Staffelkapitäne (Stolte and Lucas). Many "alte Hasen" did not return, despite that they were successfull in the East...

Best regards,
Rob

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Guys

With Kirschner I said assuming he was honest, as I don't know much about JG3 pilots, his pattern of claims does suggest he was something less than honest, but you can't tell until proven against Allied losses, and claiming four Lightnings in one day(15th November 1943) is easy to pick-up on, if was dis-honest with JG27 which was an averagely honest unit, then for sure he would have been dis-honest with JG3.

With Von Boremski I have eighty-eight confirmed for him(84 in the East)last on 24th April 1943, seems he did return to combat in 1945, but I don't know for sure.

With Wachowaik I have eighty-six confirmed in Russia until 29th November 1942, then he was training Croatian pilots with 15./JG52 before claiming three additional Russian aircraft in May 1944.

With Tanzer he made four claims on 6th May 1943 his 36th-39th, but was himself dadly wounded, moreover I do not think he returned to combat until February 1945, when do doubt he claimed further Russian aircraft. Don't know where the totals of 128 or 143 come from, his Ritterkreuz was for 39 only.....and being Oskar-Heinz Bar's wingman, perhaps his total is forty-three!

I have Munster with eight-six confirmed, seventy-two in the East, fourteen in the West, of which ten were heavies.

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

It is very interesting, I have only 48 for him. Could you please provide his Abschussliste?

Best regards,
Maxim

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Maxim, and anybody else interested.

I have yet to figure out how to make attachments on 12oclockhigh, so if you forward your personnal e.mail address to me I'll send on his abschusse liste.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Sent you a PM.

Regards,
Maxim