Re: Shooting pilots in their parachutes
 

If there was an instruction there should be a written order somewhere.

Having said that I did see gun camera footage from an American P-51 where a German pilot hanging in a parachute was shot, and saw the very same veteran pilot bragging about it in a documentary. He claimed that the German pilot had done it first, and wanted to give him his own medicine. The documentary also featured the Bf109 ace Günther Rall, but I can't remember its name.

Anyway, if anyone has new sources on this, that would be interesting. If not this whole thread is not very useful, in my humble opinion.

Re: Shooting pilots in their parachutes
 

As Nick states the shooting of airmen on parachutes has been covered before. A few years ago there was a TV documentry on the 8th Air Force and a USAAF ace was asked about being ordered to shoot up parachuting enemy pilots. He said there was no instruction in his Group, but they were ofton told a baled out Luftwaffe pilot could climb into another fighter the next day and shoot down a bomber with its ten man crew. From what I read I had the impression that a Luftwaffe pilot jumping from a Me262 would ofton get shot at. However looking through what I have I found of around 60 combat baleouts 10 pilots were killed due to parachute failure/jumping too low, of those shot at while in their chutes 5 were killed 1 wounded and 3 were safe plus one guy shot at on the ground was unwounded. Unfortunately I have no figures for the desert war although a couple of books on air combat over Malta indicates that it could get quite ruthless.

Re: Shooting pilots in their parachutes
 

there is no doubt that all sides commited these acts, I am seriously dubious it was sanctioned by higher authorities, simply as they would not want any repurcussions heading thier way, but before anyone gets a little too sanctimonious over it I would ask a simple question-

whats the difference in shooting at a baled out pilot and a tank crew evacuating a burning tank?

to even remotely judge these actions you have to try and understand the mindset of the time, total war dehumanises an enemy, that was'nt a son or brother or father they were killing it was an enemy, if you were an allied serviceman it was a nazi, a member of the armed forces of the nation that plunged europe into the war and caused the millions of deaths that it led to, if you were a german it was an invader who would destroy your home and bring destruction to your nation!

I read an account of a pilot who stated quite honestly that the transport targets he shot up could rarely be verified as genuine military targets, but as he had seen the aftermath of Luftwaffe strafing and bombing attacks on UK south coast towns and the civillian casualties that were in his opinion deliberatly caused, he simply didnt care, "they were getting a taste of thier own medicine"

sentiments echoed by many bomber crews who flattened german cities!

its best not to kid ourselves that air warfare is somehow more chavalrous than ground combat, because its rubbish, there was a LOT of hate back then!

Re: Shooting pilots in their parachutes
 

A Luftwaffe pilot from Jg52 once told my friend Bernd that he was shocked to see Americans shooting his comrades in there parachutes, and that even the Russians didn't do it!
With the Americans it was common place. Even if ordered I guess most people just would think it immoral, but not it seems many Americans. Perhaps they were frustrated at the lack of targets?

Regards

Johannes

Re: Shooting pilots in their parachutes
 

Thanks for the information guys however I may have phrased my original question improperly which led this discussion slightly off topic. Here's a more blunt version:

"Has anyone ever come across an account of an Allied or Luftwaffe pilot being shot in his parachute during the Desert Air War?"

I realize that this topic has been covered before, and inevitably causes intense discussions, however in going through the old posts I have yet to find a reference of a pilot being shot in his parachute during the Desert Air War (hence the question).

Thanks!
Bryan

Shooting pilots in their parachutes
 

Hello Bryan

If I recall correctly W/Cdr Clive Caldwell gained his nickname "Killer" for the regular practice of shooting at Axis airmen who had baled out of their aircraft. I have read that he did this in revenge after witnessing a German pilot do this to his friend P/O Donald Munro on 4 July 1941. Other accounts have him being bestowed this sobriquet for his ground strafing activities. Perhaps others can add additional information confirming or not any of this. An interesting article on him can be read at: http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...me-Killer.html.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Shooting pilots in their parachutes
 

Not necessarily the Desert War, but in Tunisia I have found ONE instance - mentioned only in a post-war commercially published history and not wartime records: 17 April 1943 - The 1st Fighter Group lost two P-38G-10-LO aircraft, respectively piloted by Capt James Harman of the 94th Fighter Squadron and Lt Robert B. Anderson, shot down by enemy fighters west of Palermo. The group history by Mullins (p. 59) alleges that Harman was strafed in his parachute and killed. I am also going through ALL the USAAF bomber and fighter mission reprots/unit records (with major gaps in the terribly documented PR and OBS groups) for that period and so far have not encountered any other reference to such incidents. Nor do the Americans ever mention strafing German pilots in their parachutes. If my memory serves, Doolittle was the 12th AF commander during this period. Needless to say, there are no official orders for USAAF pilots flying in Tunisia to fire at bailed out enemy airmen. Seems like these alleged incidents appear to have happened more frequently later in the war.

Re: Shooting pilots in their parachutes
 

I have been through the Luftwaffe loss lists line by line, but it has been a while. It would seem that if the practice of shooting parachuting aircrew had occurred very often, it would have been mentioned in the lists. My recollection is there were very few indications of pilots or crew members lost by enemy gunfire while parachuting. Can anyone else who has actually gone through the lists in detail confirm my recollection?

Best Regards,

Artie Bob

Re: Shooting pilots in their parachutes
 

I have come accross a MACR listing that indicates that Me109s strafed a B-25 crew after the plane ditched in the Med.If I remember correctly, it was in the March-June 1943 timeframe.

Re: Shooting pilots in their parachutes
 

Caldwells name was bestowed on him for his insistence on attacking any ground targets he could find on RTB, apparently he had a thing about carrying ammo back unused!