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- - BF 109G-10 77022. New gen (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=28191)

Re: BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

Ciao Freddy,

Thanks for putting me back on track... So no good reason to expect W.Nr 770 22x more there then elsewhere. The hunt for it's location is still on.

Cheers
Marc

Re: BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

AH! very interesting,
It wouldn't have been a G-10 I should have say take care...
The following pictures of a FW190 were most probably taken at Gerbini in July to september 1943 when 1°Sqdn SAAF took it together with a G-4 of 2.(H)/14.

...

Franck.

Re: BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

I think it might be useful this document I found in "Il Cielo di Campoformido, Parte II" by Roberto Bassi, Aviani Aviani Editore, Udine 2011.

From Report No. 31 "Party B" of F.I.U. (Field Intelligence Unit No. 1 dated April 25, 1945.

Inventory of aircraft found abandoned on Campoformido airfield after the withdrawal of the German troops

1) Bf 109
N. 8
Bf 109 G-8/R2
Wn 770338 CA/RE
Lower surface color: light blue
Upper surfaces color: gray and blue
Engine DB605.103 No 11900372 12/44 Fuel 87 Oct
Note: Engine recoverable

2) Bf 109
Conditions: completely burned
Engine: DB605-301-005
Installed No. 2 machine guns MG 131

3) Bf 109
Conditions: demolished
Engine: DB605-103-001 recoverable
installed a machine gun MG 151 through the propeller shaft
Wings and other weapons removed
Colour: As reported for the No. 1

4) Bf 109
Completely burned

5) Bf 109
Completely burned
Engine: DB605 burnt and lacking of some parts

6) Bf 109
Wn (on the rudder) 230144
Conditions: demolished
Engine: DB605A1 Wn 904471 (605-100-001 jjpiv on the block)
Color: dark gray and light blue
Wooden rudder
Installed on the nose No. 2 machine guns MG 131
Installed on the nose a cannon MG 151

7) Bf 109
Completely burned
Engine: DB605A4TP Wn 01,102,946 (605-301-001 on the block)
Installed a gun MG 151

8) Bf 109
Conditions: completely demolished and burned
Engine: DB605 No 01100494 recoverable
Installed a gun MG 151

9) Ar 234
No 234-292 Number on the rudder: 140344
Conditions: burned and demolished
Engines: not present
Markings: see the letter H after the German Cross

10) Ar 234
Only one wing. Serial numbers: 234-392 Wn 408010

11) Ju 88
Markings on the tail: ESL-JU Wn 1021522446
Conditions: demolished and burned

12) Bf 109
Wn (on the tail): 230292
Conditions: demolished and burned
Engine: DB605 (9-605-100-001 on the block)
Markings: No. 11 black after the German Cross

13) Bf 109
Bf 1O9 G-6/R2
Wn (on the tail) 230132 (BC)
Conditions: completely burned
Engine: DB605-28075

14) Ju 88
Markings: F8 + ED
Number (on the tail) 0251.88AZ
Conditions: demolished
Colour: Night livery

15) Ju 88
Conditions: completely burned
Engines: Jumo 9-213-A1 No 1021520984 (9-213-112-001 on the block)
The other engine is completely burned
16) Bf 109
Bf 109 G-8/R5
Conditions: completely burned
Number (on the rudder): 201134

17) Bf 109
Bf 1O9 G-8/R5
Number (on the rudder): 201129

Based on this list it seems that the photo 770 22? has not been taken in Campoformido. It is quite unlikely, also, that it had been taken on the airfield of Risano (Tissano) because, at least as far as I know, in April 1945 no plane or wreckage had been left on it, and also because in Risano the runaway and the parking areas were paved with concrete while in the picture of 770 22? the the ground is grassy.

Freddy

Re: BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 154190)

I think it might be useful this document I found in "Il Cielo di Campoformido, Parte II" by Roberto Bassi, Aviani Aviani Editore, Udine 2011.

... From Report No. 31 "Party B" of F.I.U. (Field Intelligence Unit No. 1 dated April 25, 1945.
Freddy

It was me that found that report, in 1987 at the Public Record Office. We used it and other FIU reports for the appendices of "Air War Italy 1944-45" (Beale, D'Amico, Valentini, Airlife, 1996).

Re: BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

ya the Ar 234 140344 - Oblt. Sommer of Kdo. Sommer, reported damage of the undercarriage when landing at Udine airfield April 16th 1945.

khorat

Re: BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

Thanks Nick,
I have your book but, as usual, I forgot to search in it.
I'm sorry and apologize for the incorrect citation.

Freddy

Re: BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khorat (Post 154194)

ya the Ar 234 140344 - Oblt. Sommer of Kdo. Sommer, reported damage of the undercarriage when landing at Udine airfield April 16th 1945.

khorat

What's the source for that? I corresponded with Erich Sommer for years and (quoting "Air War Italy 1944-45" again): "Sommer wrote off T9+EH in a belly landing at Campoformido but forgets the exact date."

There is however this message sent on 13 April from Italy to OKL:

CX/MSS/T519/53
KO 438
From BOWJI ((G.A.F. IT.)) ((QM)) to FOBEZ ((OKL)). a/c distribution Kurfuerst 1 on 13/4:-
The immediate allocation of 2 Ar ZASYR ((234)) B-2 is requested for maintaining and carrying out urgent operational tasks.
NOTE: Detachment Sommer (Ar 234) subordinated to GAFIT from 5/4 (T510/98).

We know that Kommando Sommer began with three aircraft and that one (Gniesmer's machine) was shot down on 11 April. If the Luftwaffe in Italy asked on 13 April for two more Arados to maintain operational capability, it seems to suggest that a second aircraft had been lost either that day or perhaps on the 12th.

By the way, if anyone's interested in why Sommer's aircraft was found without engines, here's where they were:

Re: BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 154195)

Thanks Nick,
I have your book but, as usual, I forgot to search in it.
I'm sorry and apologize for the incorrect citation.

"Our" book, Freddy, our book... :D

BTW, it was me that supplied to my friend Roberto Bassi the report and other things... ;)

P.S. Never thought the G-10/R2 W.Nr. 770 22x was at Risano... strange how it may seem, I still think of Villafranca... very difficult that Golding made an "holyday tour" in Northern Italy having twice the opportunity to photograph the same plane in different conditions...

If we consider the possibility that one F.I.U. report was wrong, why not the one of Villafranca?

Re: BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

Hi Nick, got this information from E.C.

khorat
Michael Balss

Re: BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khorat (Post 154211)

Hi Nick, got this information from E.C.

khorat
Michael Balss

Hallo Michael, who (or what?) is E.C.? My brain can only come up with Eric Clapton at the moment!

P.S. The FIU report on Campoformido says that there were miles of dispersal tracks (many unused) that extended as far as Lavariano so that Bf 109 could have been overloooked near Risano.