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Re: Soviet P-63 pilot, escaping with He 111 w.V1(s)

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well, more than OT , but i have a question.
wasn´t there a election in uppersilesia in the year 1921 ( being part of poland or germany ) and almost 60 % voted for germany ?

As usual, there are two versions of the event, ie. plebiscite itself and surrounding events. It was eg. claimed that Germany brought several people to Silesia just to assure proportion being in German favour. It is a fact that there were three uprisings in the area that led to inclusion Silesia to Poland. Obviously, this would not happen without large support among inhabitants. And it is a fact, most of Upper Silesia was in Poland before the war.

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Please don't pervert my words and admit that Silesia was a German territory mostly, so there were no reparations from Poland but reparations from the German territories.

Pervert? This clearly shows lacks in your education.
Anyway, since Potsdam and decisions of authorities of UK, USA and SU, those territiories were Polish. The one may like it or not, but that was (and is) a legal status of those lands.
SU robbed both Polish and ex-German lands and demanded reparations from Poland. This is what you call liberation.

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Definitely it's difficult to imagine anything that poles could do or get without Russians, Germans or someone else.

Prosperity.

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Maybe to steal something from the Czech?

Oh, whenever Russians lack an argument, disputable territories of Cieszyn return! And negroes are beaten in your country!

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And last but not least Belorussians and Ukranians didn't want to live in Poland as well as Silesians so nobody who knows the history won't take seriously your picture of happy Poland before the war.

No Ukrainians died of hunger in Poland, there was no Ukrainian underground movement here and Ukrainians spoke Ukrainian and no Russian. Relationships were sometimes good and sometimes tense but still those were rlationships between Poles and Ukrainians and not Russians.

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BTW Soviet troops were in Poland in large numbers because of Cold War, not because of Polish resistance. No need a lot of troops to make poles quiet.

A very interesting euphemism. Polish government and Polish troops remain on the West, Soviet troops are based in quantities in Poland, SU supports a puppet government formed of NKVD agents or Russians, Polish underground fights hopelessly aginst new occupants. Why Soviets are in Poland? Because of COLD WAR! Interesting.

PS You are going off topic!

Re: Soviet P-63 pilot, escaping with He 111 w.V1(s)

yes, almost every time there are 2 versions of an story.
but of course, your version is true. ;)

as Ben Okri once has said:

Nations and People are largely the stories they feed themselves.
If they tell themselves stories that are lies, they will suffer the future consequences of these lies.
If they tell themselves stories that face their own truths, they will free their histories for future flowerings.

Re: Soviet P-63 pilot, escaping with He 111 w.V1(s)

History is used by politics, so no wonder it suffers. Nonetheless historians' approach should be to look for truth. As to plebiscite, I cannot say anything, I have never researched the period nor seen any documents. There must have been some right on the Polish side though, as Entente finally agreed for correction of the border.
Something completely different is that there is evidence and evidence. Soviets hanged some Germans responsible (according to them) for Katyn massacre. Certainly they have had some evidence but how would you value it?

Re: Soviet P-63 pilot, escaping with He 111 w.V1(s)

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Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

Polish government and Polish troops remain on the West, Soviet troops are based in quantities in Poland, SU supports a puppet government formed of NKVD agents or Russians, Polish underground fights hopelessly aginst new occupants. Why Soviets are in Poland? Because of COLD WAR! Interesting.

again, NKVD and later polish KGB or whatever you call it were enough to have poles quiet , large Soviet army forces formed the second attack echelon in case of a scale conflict with NATO and didn't have too much in common with preventing poles in their intension to be free from communism.

Re: Soviet P-63 pilot, escaping with He 111 w.V1(s)

So why there were Soviet troops in Poznań in 1956?

Re: Soviet P-63 pilot, escaping with He 111 w.V1(s)

Hey, the topic is "Soviet P-63 pilot, escaping with He 111", in the Allied and Soviet Air Forces forum.

I suggest that you continue your political discussions at one of the forums below instead:

www.talk/endlesspolitics.com

www.whoisbest/poland/orgermany.com

www.norespect/forthetopic.com

Re: P-63 Kingcobra in VVS in Europe 1945!

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I think that the thread below has already come rather far from the original, interesting topic concerning the possible appearance of Soviet P-63 Kingcobras in Eastern Europe in WW II. I do not want to became involved in the unproductive yes-no poltical debate, but would merely want to return to the original problem.

Great, Carl-Fredrik! In the absence of active moderation against such trashing of threads, we need to do like you did now. That's why I "bump" this thead forward.

I follow the discussion with great interest (namely "P-63 Kingcobra in VVS in Europe 1945", not Silesian politics).

Re: Soviet P-63 pilot, escaping with He 111 w.V1(s)

This is Ruy's forum, so it will be him, who will decide if to lock the thread.
I agree it goes way off topic, though.

Re: Soviet P-63 pilot, escaping with He 111 w.V1(s)

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Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

So why there were Soviet troops in Poznań in 1956?

Sorry I have no idea I have never heard anything about Poznan in 1956