Re: luftwaffe flying discs
 

Dear Ed,

I checked the site you referenced. It looks like a lot of substantiation, although I'm not sure just yet how it actually works. It seems a long way off to create a useful lifting vehicle.

If the Germans had actually been far more advanced, then why did the work die off?

Regards,
Richard

Re: luftwaffe flying discs
 

Dear Richard,


You are asking me to stretch credulity again, but since you did ask.

As the war drew to a close, there were two, secret disc aircraft projects working toward completion. One used conventional propulsion, the other, electrogravitic. The latter was controlled by the SS. The Allies had been sending commandos into Germany to destroy, disrupt and capture what they could. Communications lines were cut, radio traffic intercepted, etc. The underground factories producing the conventially powered aircraft were overun before their deployment. A few of the conventially powered machines were captured relatively intact. The electrogravitic discs were used to evacuate that project's scientists, engineers and SS personnel to a base in Antarctica.

American Intelligence was just as incredulous as some of you reading this are now, but soon became convinced. In December 1946, Admiral Byrd set sail with an armada of ships and 4,000 troops for Operation Highjump. This operation was supposedly undertaken to test military equipment in extreme conditions. I think they would have saved time by sailing north. This explanation does not appear credible to me.

The operation was supposed to last months but was cut short. Reports afterwards indicated they were attacked by German disc aircraft. I suggest you look at the books, German Jet Genesis and Brighter than a Thousand Suns for mention of German discs.

So the Americans had conventional disc aircraft plans and some of those who worked on them but no electrogravitic craft. T. Townsend Brown was employed by the Naval Research Laboratory to get that job done. Further reference:

Conquest of Gravity Aim Of Top Scientists in U.S. (Photo caption) Dr. Charles T. Dozier, left, senior research engineer and guided missiles expert of the Convair Division of General Dynamics Corp. conducting a research experiment toward control of gravity with Martin Kaplan, Convair Senior electronics engineer. And below that: Changes Far Beyond Atom Are the Prize, Revolution in Power, Air Transit Seen. New York Herald Tribune, Sunday, November 20, 1955.

If I was in the oil industry, that's a development I would not like to see. This program faded from view in the late 1950s as if it never existed.


Regards,
Ed

Re: luftwaffe flying discs
 

Dear Ed,

You do realize, I hope, how bizarre some of your statements sound. For instance:

This is even crazier that the old chestnut that Hitler escaped to Brazil, Argentina, or Antarctica in a U-Boat.

To put this in perspective, while there were enough Jumo 004's available for all the Me 262's being built, the Germans, at the end of the war, lacked the transportation system to get the engines to the assembly facilities. Fuel and transport means were in extremely short supply. The infrastructure of Germany was in shambles. So, you are saying that, at the last minute, things could quite orderly be put in place to evacuate the entire project to Antarctica utilizing these antigravitic discs, which no one in Allied intelligence ever saw?

As for David Master's German Jet Genesis, David at least treats the subject with a degree of skepticism.

Your message implies a huge and ongoing coverup. If we need an example of super secret history, we only have to look as far as stealth aircraft technology. Sooner or later, for an aircraft to actually be able to be utilized, the wraps have to come off. We've seen it with the F-117. Sure, it was kept under cover for a long time. But, eventually, we got to see what the plane looked like. Logically, if the Germans had something functional and exceptional in terms of conventionally powered flying discs, that technology would have been followed up upon and, certainly, the wraps would have come off of the development ages ago. That never happened.

As for the electrogravitic lifter technology, it appears to be in a very immature state. Whether this could ever be tranformed into an actual heavy lift capability, only time will tell. Your proposition is that, not only did the Germans work on it, but they matured it into that very practical heavy lift capability in the midst of a war that was very much going south. Then, as a reason why we never were privy to the technology, you proffer the suggestion that the project, in toto, was flown to Antarctica, never ever to be heard from again. Rather convenient, don't you think?

At least we are in agreement that the Admiral Byrd thing sounds, well, less than plausible.

You can't prove your case by saying the evidence went south and disappeared. I could do the same, but it wouldn't be proof.

Ed, I fear that you are so taken with the subject that you may be building a house of cards, a half truth here, an inference there, and an innuendo transliterated into a fact. Go and get the hard evidence and, if it doesn't exist, then save face and back away.

As a comparative example, the story I hear was that Colin Powell wasn't at all happy with the evidence that he was being given to take to the U.N. to make the case for war with Iraq. He threw out much of it, asked for better, then went with the best he had, which wasn't that great. In the end, we know that none of the evidence was worth a damn. Powell is an honorable, but very cautious man. He also played the dutiful soldier, perhaps too much so. So, even with the vast resources of U.S. and British intelligence, we were duped. I believe you have far less at your disposal. Please be very careful.

Regards,
Richard

Re: luftwaffe flying discs
 

Richard
Have not you heard about Dr Mengele's experiments that led to a new superhuman race? They had to have 5 feet and green skin to reduce target size and increase camouflage, four eyes to improve observation abilities and three fingers in each hand to reduce possible injuries. Dr Mengele dissapeared in the South as you know.

Re: luftwaffe flying discs
 

Dear Richard,


I promise to refrain from putting up any more information here. I appreciate your concern, but, trust me, after doing research for 25 years based on assignments to locate all sorts of information, I'll be fine. I appreciate a healthy skepticism, but not asking questions or even looking at all, is not the answer.

Once again, should I find anything further, I will not be putting the information here. This is an ongoing project. I will not be disappointed if I find nothing further.


Best regards,
Ed

Re: luftwaffe flying discs
 

Ed
A few years ago a book called Syndrom V-7 (V-7 Syndromme) has been published in Poland. I was never interested in flying sauccers and UFO but briefly looked through the book. It seems to me it is a detailed and well researched myth buster going to the roots of every false claim about German flying sauccers.
Of course the one may believe the King lives, but he should be not surprised what the other people think about it.

Re: luftwaffe flying discs
 

Dear Ed,

At the risk of repeating myself, because of the fringe nature of the subject of your heart, I would caution you not to take much note of secondary material until you have, first hand, found the primary material upon which the claim might possibly be based.

For instance, you directed me to David Master's book. Did you take a look at Master's sources? Except for A.I.2(G) Report No. 2383, German Aircraft: New and Projected Types, all his sources noted are secondary. While he claims that he utilized far more sources than he lists, he also points out that the ones he lists are his most significant references. Total listed references: 8. Some were significant for their time, but have since been superceded. None is actually focused on the topic of German flying discs, but on German aircraft, in general. I probably would have a hard time with any of them coming up with a decent primary reference dealing with the flying discs.

As for the sole primary reference, A.I.2(g) Report No. 2383, a quick review of its table of contents doesn't reveal any coverage of German flying discs.

I can't urge you strongly enough to use as many primary references as possible and to not rely on the hearsay of books on such a topic. Then, with these, see if they can truly stand up to scrutiny.

Good luck.

Regards,
Richard

Re: luftwaffe flying discs
 

Hi Ed

While you and Richard seem to know much about the subject, there must be many members who have a similar lack of knowledge as I, so do PLEASE keep your thoughts and ideas coming. Fascinating stuff, especially as no one knows the truth! A bit like religion - either you believe (as I do) or you don't!!

Cheers
Brian

Re: luftwaffe flying discs
 

My memory is unclear, but in the late 70's, early 80's a work of fiction titled 'GENESIS' by G. W. Harbinson was released dealing with Foo fighters and predictions for the future. Much of it seemed far fetched, but confirms some of the info supplied by Ed West. The author quoted numerous sources for his info, however I no longer have a copy of the book.
From memory one of the projects bore the name 'Kugelblitz' and as with many German secret weapon projects of the time had been taken over by the SS. The author's description of events surrounding Admiral Byrd's expedition were quite different to the information on this site thus far.
Hope this has helped.
Regards Bulldog.

Re: luftwaffe flying discs
 

The following is taken from: Report of Operation HIGHJUMP.


"1 JA plus 4 HO3S-1 and 2 HOS helicopters. Total naval and marine personnel participating was slightly in excess of 4700 officers and men.

"The short period available for planning and preparation required stenuous work on the part of all. Many of the ships were in an inactive status and all were below peace time complements. All aircraft required winterization and some alterations. Little time was available for the training and indoctrinatin of the hastily assembled crews of the ships and aircraft. Much specialized equipment had to be assembled and modified for the special conditions to be encountered, especially that for the base at Little America. The departure date of 2 December 1946 could not have been met except for the splendid cooperation of the various Bureaus and agencies of the Navy Department and of numerous commands afloat and ashore."

During the war, American planes were flying to bases in Iceland and Greenland, and ground personnel were stationed there. The urgency assigned to this operation is highly suspicious.



Ed