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-   -   Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=777)

Joda87 6th November 2020 19:29
Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik (Post 297222)
Joda

Sources differ.
Byron has preferred the "old" interpretation and says 6./KG 26 while Steenbeck gives a "new" interpretation and says 5./KG 26

I don't know what findings have resulted in such a way to make Steenbeck change the previous held view.

It would also be interesting to know why Biewendt was connected with WNr 6240. Was he badly wounded on the 20th and died the day after (21st) or was he killed on the ground?

B Rgds
Stig
Many thanks Stig!

According to Yannis, it was listed as dead the day after but actually he was killed on May 20th. In his book he show his JU 52 hit (photo from AWM), and his researches led him to this statement. Considering that many men of III.Zug 14 (FJR.1) were killed after the crash of his plane on 20th, I'm with him about the date of death..

Stig Jarlevik 6th November 2020 19:42
Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joda87 (Post 297225)
Many thanks Stig!

According to Yannis, it was listed as dead the day after but actually he was killed on May 20th. In his book he show his JU 52 hit (photo from AWM), and his researches led him to this statement. Considering that many men of III.Zug 14 (FJR.1) were killed after the crash of his plane on 20th, I'm with him about the date of death..
OK, do we know what rank he had? Could he have been a soldier/paratrooper onboard?

B Rgds
Stig

Joda87 6th November 2020 19:55
Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik (Post 297227)
OK, do we know what rank he had? Could he have been a soldier/paratrooper onboard?

B Rgds
Stig
Unteruffizier. I know he considers him a crew member, but I can ask him his exact role, if he knows this.
I'll keep you updated.

Joda87 6th November 2020 19:56
Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joda87 (Post 297224)
Sorry, may be you think I'm very ignorant, but I'm getting great knowledge thanks to this thread ;)
many thanks.

How is it possible to understand the codes you all use here? Like G6+EK

Sidney in post #7 kindly explained me, thanks, but where I can find the first LW unit corresponding two digits (1H or G6) or the 4th digit (like K in EK)?
Plz.help me also here ....:)

retje 6th November 2020 20:00
Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 
Hello,

Uffz. u. Flugzeugführer Helmut Biewendt, 2./KG zbV 101, Erk.-M.: 53411/27 (Kampfgruppe zb Verfügung).
All three (Uffz. u. Flzgfhr. Helmut Biewendt, Uffz. u. Bf. Werner Krimse, Fw. u. Bm. Erich Mählig) were buried side by side at the Heraklion cemetery.

According the Gräberoffizier the crew was first missing. On the official death card, loss date is 21.5.1941.

Regards,
René

Stig Jarlevik 6th November 2020 20:03
Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joda87 (Post 297224)
How is it possible to understand the codes you all use here? Like G6+EK

Sidney in post #7 kindly explained me, thanks, but where I can find the first LW unit corresponding two digits (1H or G6) or the 4th digit (like K in EK)?
I don't know if they are on the 'net somewhere.
Sinisa explained the concept in a previous mail, but perhaps should have added that each major Luftwaffe unit had a unit code consisting of one letter and one digit, ie A1+ and 1A+
the two letters after the cross always indicated the aircraft status within this main unit (Geschwader). The first of these letters were the aircraft's position within the smallest entity (the Staffel). The last letter thus indicated this Staffel.

During the period you are interested the last letter indicator was:
A-G used by Geschwader and/or Gruppe Stab flights
H = 1. Staffel (I. Gruppe)
K = 2. Staffel (I. Gruppe)
L = 3. Staffel (I. Gruppe)
M = 4. Staffel (II. Gruppe)
N = 5. Staffel (II. Gruppe)
P = 6. Staffel (II. Gruppe)
R = 7. Staffel (III. Gruppe)
S = 8. Staffel (III. Gruppe)
T = 9. Staffel (III. Gruppe)

This basic system was used by the Luftwaffe all through the war. However it evolved when units expanded (the Gruppe got four Staffeln for example)

Some units had extra Gruppen, IV. Gruppe was thus usually an OTU, ie operational training unit, while a few units also had a V. Gruppe.

There were also exceptions, but this is the main set up

B Rgds
Stig

Joda87 6th November 2020 20:11
Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by René Brachten (Post 297231)
Hello,

Uffz. Helmut Biewendt, 2./KG zbV 101, Identity Disc: 53411/27 (Kampfgruppe zb Verfügung).
All three were buried side by side at the Heraklion cemetery.

According the Gräberoffizier the crew was first missing. On the official death card, loss date is 21.5.1941.

Regards,
René
Thanks René!
Sorry, I listed 4 names, but you mention "all three".. Which were the crew members?
Uffz.Helmut Biewendt, Uffz.Werner Kirmse, Uffz.Willi Schürme, Fw.Erich Mählig

Where I can find his official death card?

Joda87 6th November 2020 20:13
Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik (Post 297232)
I don't know if they are on the 'net somewhere.
Sinisa explained the concept in a previous mail, but perhaps should have added that each major Luftwaffe unit had a unit code consisting of one letter and one digit, ie A1+ and 1A+
the two letters after the cross always indicated the aircraft status within this main unit (Geschwader). The first of these letters were the aircraft's position within the smallest entity (the Staffel). The last letter thus indicated this Staffel.

During the period you are interested the last letter indicator was:
A-G used by Geschwader and/or Gruppe Stab flights
H = 1. Staffel (I. Gruppe)
K = 2. Staffel (I. Gruppe)
L = 3. Staffel (I. Gruppe)
M = 4. Staffel (II. Gruppe)
N = 5. Staffel (II. Gruppe)
P = 6. Staffel (II. Gruppe)
R = 7. Staffel (III. Gruppe)
S = 8. Staffel (III. Gruppe)
T = 9. Staffel (III. Gruppe)

This basic system was used by the Luftwaffe all through the war. However it evolved when units expanded (the Gruppe got four Staffeln for example)

Some units had extra Gruppen, IV. Gruppe was thus usually an OTU, ie operational training unit, while a few units also had a V. Gruppe.

There were also exceptions, but this is the main set up

B Rgds
Stig
Many many thanks, I really appreciate all your helps guys ;)

Joda87 6th November 2020 20:44
Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by René Brachten (Post 297231)
Hello,

Uffz. und Flugzeugführer Helmut Biewendt, 2./KG zbV 101, Identity Disc: 53411/27 (Kampfgruppe zb Verfügung).
All three (Uffz. u. Flzgfhr. Helmut Biewendt, Uffz. u. Bf. Werner Krimse, Fw. u. BM Erich Mählig) were buried side by side at the Heraklion cemetery.

According the Gräberoffizier the crew was first missing. On the official death card, loss date is 21.5.1941.

Regards,
René
Thanks René ;) , I tried to pm you but the webpage writes me you cannot receive pm.

Joda87 7th November 2020 17:14
Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 
Hallo friends,
Does anybody has info about a Ju 52 G6+KL ? Shot down on May 20th

Thanks in advance


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