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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Now we just need to determine the WN of Hotting White 13 is.
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=996
164. After capturing Munich at the end of April 1945, American forces pushed south along the A8 autobahn towards Salzburg, Austria. Entering the Hofoldinger Forest about 15 km. south of Munich, they found over 60 aircraft parked under the pine trees near the highway, including four Me 262s along the west side. This picture shows American forces finding Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 111685 9K+FH of 1./KG 51 (listed as with JV 44 at München-Riem on 26 April 1945 but not identified as from "I./KG 51"). http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=999 165. The fresh coat of thick, white paint on the tail indicates that 1.Staffel markings had been applied quite recently. As well, a new nose cone had not been camouflaged. Like all the Me 262s found in the Hofoldinger Forest, the retreating Germans had sabotaged this aircraft by placing explosives in the engine nacelles. Useless to the Americans, these aircraft were towed south along A8 to the collecting area and scrapyard on the east side at Brunnthal. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=997
116. Photos of W.Nr. 111685 in the Brunnthal collecting area show that it had unique features. First, it had the simple black hakenkreuz of the Regensburg-administered W.Nr. 500xxx series with its lack of white gun rectangles. Its history shows that this Me 262, along with a few others of the 1116xx series, was accepted by Stabsflugführer Major Anton Riediger at Kitzingen in March 1945. This may be related to the fact that it has a unique rudder akin to the Kaulquappe (tadpole) fame. However this one has a large tail-light bulb and was camouflaged matching the rest of the tail and fuselage. Like the Regensburg aircraft, the werknummer is in black numerals forward of the lowest part of the hakenkreuz. But the numerals are larger and found on both sides of the fin, not just the port side. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=998 167. This view of the starboard side of W.Nr. 111685 shows a recent change of identity. First, the old markings were painted out using the minimum effort possible. The original two-character Geschwader code to the left of the balkenkreuz was as small as the "9K" that replaced it. To the right, the large individual aircraft letter was painted out to make way for the white "F" that quickly began to flake off, and the small Staffel letter was replaced by the small black "H". This suggests that another Kampfgeschwader, and not a Kampfgeschwader (Jagd), was the previous owner of this aircraft. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Thanks
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
You're most welcome, Dan.
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Jim,
With respect to No.167, there was only one ‘true’ Me 262-equipped Kampfgeschwader, that being KG 51 “9K” (and its earlier derivations, e.g. Kdo. Schenk). KG(J) 54 did use the alpha-numeric unit code and Staffel letter in small (20 cm height) characters. Thus if this machine was not previously with another KG 51 Staffeln it could theoretically have been with KG(J) 54. Best, David |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Quote:
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Quote:
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1000
168. This mediocre picture shows how Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 170071 white "2" of III/EJG 2 was found out in the open along the A8 autobahn in the Hofoldinger Forest south of Munich. Note the nacelle fairing by the road. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1001 169. Close examination of this picture shows not only the blast pattern on the fuselage of the explosive in the engine nacelle but damage from the very thin wire cable the Germans looped over the tail to drag white "2" to this spot. This suggests a hasty removal of a last minute arrival landing on the autobahn. The cut pine branches are not yet desiccated. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1002 170. In this view the extent of the damage from the explosion can be seen and the branches are now desiccated. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1003 171. So far I have not seen any photos of white "2" in the collection yard at Brunnthal. In this picture, the nose of white "9" can be seen sticking out of the trees about 50 meters in the distance. Note the white gravel path seen in many of the photos of the Me 262s along the Hofoldinger Forest. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1006
172. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 111617 white "9" of III./EJG 2 was possibly one of the three aircraft at the far end of the kaulquappe line-up at Lechfeld in February or March of 1945, behind the white "10" that can be seen in the photo on page 409 of Smith & Creek, Me 262 Volume 2, (1998). On page 129 of O'Connell's Production Log, (2005), he rightly places W.Nr. 111617 at the DLH facility at München Riem on 26 April 1945. This photo shows it was found by American forces hidden along Autobahn A8 in the Hofoldinger Forest in May 1945 with its engine nacelles demolished. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1007 173. This photo shows that white "9" had been pushed into its position under the trees. There are no sign of cordory logs as seen at Scheppach. Note the rear fuel tank lying beneath the aircraft, stripped of its leather. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1011
174. Like W.Nr. 111685 9K+FH, white "9" was dragged south along the autobahn and is seen among the other aircraft assembled for scrapping at the Brunnthal collection yard. Note the similar damage to the base of the tail fin. The rear fuel tank lying beneath it is likely from white surround "34" whose port wing is seen lower right. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1010 175. This picture shows the nose of white "9" at Brunnthal. Photos of both sides of the fuselage shoe that the "white 9" was painted over a previous dark numeral. Also, like 111685, this aircraft has no white gun rectangles. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1009 176. O'Connell on page 128 states that 111617 was fitted with an experimental wooden tail. However, when it was discovered by the Ameicans, it had standard camouflage on its tail with the werknummer under the hakenkreuz, but a white rudder with a standard late-production tail light bulb had replaced the kaulquappe rudder. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1012
177. In April 1945, III./EJG 2 had a reconnaissance "Conversion Detachment" at Lechfeld (see Nick Beale's latest updates on "Ghostbombers": "1./NAG 1 and the Me 262: disbandment of 1./NAGr 13 before completing its conversion"). In a table on Me 262 dispositions dated 10 April 1945, found in RL 2/III 624, eleven jets from "NAGr 1 u 6" had already been handed over to III/EJG 2. These were likely A-4s (aka A-1a/U3s) and at least one Me 262 B-1a trainer. At Lechfeld, III./EJG 2 possibly gave these the white-surround identities "25" to "35", painted in front of their cockpits. This photo shows how white-surround "34" was found by American forces in the Hofoldinger Forest in May 1945. At first glance, it seems that only the reconnaissance nose assembly has simply been exchanged for a dark-camouflaged standard fighter nose with four MK 108 cannon. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1013 178. In thread #44720/post #17 of this forum, David E. Brown identifies this Me 262 as W.Nr. 500252. This mediocre photo shows that only the starboard engine nacelle had suffered a detonation. Note the intact cannibalized Jumo 004 on the port side with a bare metal forward cowling. This lends credence to the idea that the A-4s found at Lechfeld had been given over to III./EJG2. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1014
179. In this photo, mechanics are in the process of removing the port turbine from white-surround "34". It is missing in some photos. Note the damage at the base of the tail fin indicates that it had been dragged backwards along Autobahn A8 by a thin cable to this spot in the Brunnthal collection yard. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1015 180. This photo shows that only the body of the fuselage and tail remained of the original aircraft. Undoubtedly at the workshops in Lechfeld, it not only got a new nose assembly, but a wing so new it was not painted nor given national markings. Note the leather-covered fuel tanks lying on the ground. On page 109 of Brown etal., Messerschmitt Me 262 Production & Arado Ar 234 Final Operations, (Japo, 2012) is a view of the port side of "34" showing where scavengers have peeled away the side of thefuselage to remove its rear fuel tank. On the same page we are told that the engines found on "34" were from two different aircraft. |
"176. O'Connell on page 128 states that 111617 was fitted with an experimental wooden tail. However, when it was discovered by the Ameicans, it had standard camouflage on its tail with the werknummer under the hakenkreuz, but a white rudder with a standard late-production tail light bulb had replaced the kaulquappe rudder.[/quote]"
I have no idea why 111617's original wooden rudder was replaced, as it had been found to be in good shape on April 1, but as shown at the dump, it was NOT the original rudder. I am unaware of any photos of 617 with it's original rudder. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1013 178. In thread #44720/post #17 of this forum, David E. Brown identifies this Me 262 as W.Nr. 500252. This mediocre photo shows that only the starboard engine nacelle had suffered a detonation. Note the intact cannibalized Jumo 004 on the port side with a bare metal forward cowling. This lends credence to the idea that the A-4s found at Lechfeld had been given over to III./EJG2.[/quote] My understanding is that this is actually 500004. [quote=Karoband;320583]http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1012 177. In April 1945, III./EJG 2 had a reconnaissance "Conversion Detachment" at Lechfeld (see Nick Beale's latest updates on "Ghostbombers": "1./NAG 1 and the Me 262: disbandment of 1./NAGr 13 before completing its conversion"). In a table on Me 262 dispositions dated 10 April 1945, found in RL 2/III 624, eleven jets from "NAGr 1 u 6" had already been handed over to III/EJG 2. These were likely A-4s (aka A-1a/U3s) and at least one Me 262 B-1a trainer. At Lechfeld, III./EJG 2 possibly gave these the white-surround identities "25" to "35", painted in front of their cockpits. This photo shows how white-surround "34" was found by American forces in the Hofoldinger Forest in May 1945. At first glance, it seems that only the reconnaissance nose assembly has simply been exchanged for a dark-camouflaged standard fighter nose with four MK 108 cannon. The A4's were converted at Eger, where after conversion, they were given their unique paint camo and numbers. After they were transfered to III./EJG 2 at Lechfeld, they RETAINED their original fuselage numbers. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1016
181. On 10 June 1945, Watson's Whizzers flew nine refurbished Me 262s out of Lechfeld on their way to Cherbourg, France, for shipment to the USA. Left behind were at least fifteen other Me 262s, some cannibalized for parts, that were parked in front of an intact hangar used by the Americans. Their usefulness over, these Me 262s were then towed behind the hangar to be left derelict over the winter of 1945-1946 before being scrapped. This mediocre picture shows that among them was Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110956 white "17+S" of III./EJG 2. To its far left, the dark Me 262 is undoubtedly W.Nr. 113363 seen with the same wooden platform at a different angle on page 154 of Dan O'Connell's Production Log. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1017 182. On page 145 of Jurleit's Strahljäger Me 262 Das Technikgeschichte, (1992), he identifies a "Tippel" as one of the "Überführungspiloten ferrying Me 262s from REIHAHG/Kahla to Zerbst. In post #64 of this thread, David E. Brown has Günther Tipple as transferring W.Nr. 110955 from Kahla to Zerbst on 13 March 1945. In thread #25583/post #4, Dan O'Connell writes, "In that Flugbuch, by Guenther Tippel are three "new" W.Nr., 110951, 110955 and 110960 ...". Since W.Nr 110956 falls in that range of werknummern, it too may be from REIMAHG/Kahla which may explain its distinctive markings. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1018
183. This photo shows some unusual markings for a 110xxx Series aircraft administered by the Augsburg consortium. As seen with W.Nr. 111685 in the Hofoldinger Forest, instead of a black hakenkreuz with a white surround, this one has the simple black version of the 500xxx Series of the Regensburg administration with the entire werknummer ahead of the lowest point of the hakenkreuz. However, in this case, the werknummer is also found on both sides of the tail fin, not just the port side. Most noteworthy, moreover, is the simple black balkenkreuz on the sides of the rear fuselage and the undersides of the wings of a fully-camouflaged Me 262. This is distinctive also to to Me 262 A-1a 110950 white "10+S" found at an unknown waldwerk and yellow "3+S" of 9./KG(J) 6 found at Saaz/Zatec [see pp. 152-153 of Brown, etal., Messerschmitt Me 262s of KG & KG(J) units, (JaPo, 2021)]. Yellow "3+S" is the only Me 262 with an "S" warning not to exceed 800 Km/h I have seen with a tactical fighter numeral on the rear fuselage. There is another fully-camouflaged Me 262 with black balkenkreuze but without the "S" designation discussed in thread #43198 as perhaps coded TS+MB. This would make it a discarded Me 262 being used as a static trainer at the Technical School at Schleissheim. If my speculation as to this werknummer series is correct, then the quality of these Me 262s produced at REIMAHG/Kahla may have been inferior. The W.Nr. 110956, seen here, already has a replaced nose assembly. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Jim, can you CONFIRM 110950 as an actual aircraft? I have no information as to that WN.
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Hi Dan,
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1019 First, I need to apologize to David E. Brown and his colleagues for my mistake in quoting the place where white "10+S" was found. The exact quote from their book is "... and W.Nr. 110950 "White 10" found at an unknown Waldwerk." I will correct my error above. The attached photo I found on the internet is slightly larger than that in David's book but has had the hakenkreuz and I suspect part of the werknummer censored. These are not censored in David's book. Thus I can only confirm the existence of white "10+S". Since David and his colleagues have access to the original photo and have published the werknummer as 110950, I presume they have seen it. best regards, Jim |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
It "looks" like the same place 755 was found. Some say near Lechfeld.
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Thanks for the photo Jim!
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Quote:
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
You're welcome, Dan and Nick. Obviously I enjoy doing this. I think there's a detective in all of us.
Jim |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
I can confirm 110950 is a REAL confirmed WN after I had a chance to see it for myself. Jim, please keep doing it!
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
You’re welcome Dan! ;)
Great to chat with you last night. Best, David |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Certainly great to talk to you Dave! And because of that interaction we were able to confirm a new one, and they are sure getting harder to find and confirm!
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1020
184. On page 184 of American Raiders, (2004), Wolfgang Samuel captions an almost identical photograph of white-surround "33" as, "Master Sergeant Freiburger and his men attached a rope to the nose gear of this photo-reconnaissance Me 262, intending to pull it into the nearby aircraft hanger. The gear promptly collapsed." MSgt. Eugene Freiburger of the 54th Air Disarmament Squadron and his team had reached Lechfeld on 4 May 1945 only to find that GIs had shot up many of the fifty Me 262s left there by the retreating Germans and soon learned he had been assigned to recover and make airworthy fifteen intact jets by a Colonel Harold Watson. He soon found the proper way to tow intact Me 262s and how to throw a cable over the tail plane of disabled ones and haul them backwards. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1021 185. Brown etal., Messerschmitt Me 262 Production & Arado Ar 234 Final Operations, (JaPo, 2012), pp. 100-106 has an in-depth article on this aircraft. It is identified as "Me 262 A-1a/U3, W.Nr. 500539, "White 33" ...". On pages 31-32, it is revealed that the designation of this Behelfsaufklärer [interim recce aircraft] was changed by January 1945 from "A4" to "A-1a/U3". From p. 100, "on 22nd March it was flown by Alfred Brück (Fl.Ü.G. 1) from Cheb to Lechfeld, the flight lasted from 16.20 to 16.42. Considering the date, the aircraft was most likely directly assigned to III./EJG 2 and served only for training...". In this photo, the three-part modified bulge fairings to accommodate the bulk of film canisters atop the Rb 50/30 cameras can clearly be seen. On p. 58 there is an excellent photo of the hangar used by Freiburger's crew at Lechfeld. White-surround "33" had first been dragged to the front left of this hangar still sitting on its nose. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1022
186. The modifications to Behelfsaufklärer to install cameras were done at Flufgzeugwerk Eger G.m.b.H. at Cheb, Czechoslovakia and the aircraft were then camouflaged there with individual distinctive patterns of "snaky mottles of RLM 83 in rather complex patterns". As well, the werknummer was placed in black numerals on the tailfin below the tail plane on both sides and a black hakenkreuz with a thin white surround replaced the standard simple black one of the 500xxx series. "33" is seen here after the Whizzers had left Lechfeld and the remaining Me 262s had been dragged behind the hangar. Immediately behind "33" can be seen the noseless WNr. 170078 recognizable by its lack of camouflage. Behind it is W.Nr. 500251? "26" and to the right is W.Nr. 130004 V9 "VI+AD". |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1026
187. This poor photo shows Me 262 C-2b W.Nr. 170074 "V074", a Messerschmitt company test aircraft, in a hangar at Lechfeld undergoing a static test of its BMW 003 TLR hybrid turbo/rocket engines. If you look closely, you can see the rocket exhaust nozzle sticking out above the rear of the engine nacelle. The concept was that the rocket was to provide boost both on take-off and in combat. O'Connell, Production Log, p. 51, recounts the dismal results of the trials. Note the balkenkreuz on the wing. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1027 188. This photo shows American GIs, shortly after capturing Lechfeld on 27 April 1945, examining "V074". Note that the aircraft was found without engines and covered in camouflage nets. It is distinguishable by its white werknummer. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1028 189. Gathered by MSgt. Freiburger in the field on the left side of the front of the Whizzer's hangar at Lechfeld, possibly Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 113363 and "V074" are seen with their tracks in the mud of early May 1945. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1029 190. Here Me 262 W.Nrs. 130005 "VI+AE", 500539 "33" and 170074 "V074" are seen in their resting places to the left of the hangar. "V074" is still upright without its engines. W.Nr. 110956 white "17" and W.Nr. 113363 are out of camera range to the right. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1030 191. Towed behind the hangar after the Whizzers left on 10 June 1945, "V074" and "VI+AE" are among the Me 262s left as derelicts. In photos, "V074" can also be recognized by its emergency rocket-fuel dumping pipe below the fuselage. Note the unpainted wing and missing parts. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1031
192. Me 262 V10 W.Nr. 130005 "VI+AE" was another Messerschmitt test aircraft at Lechfeld. Here it is being piloted by Gerd Linder in October or November 1944 in a mis-guided concept of towing a 1000 kg bomb, (O'Connell, p.22). It was used as a test frame for other ideas including a modification of the nose to heat the gun compartment. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1032 193. Seen at Lechfeld in June 1945 tipped on its nose nearest the camera, V10 "VI+AE" has had its engines removed. In this colour photo, it is in the vicinity of V9 W.Nr. 130004 "VI+AD" and W.Nr. 110526 white "15" in the field at the left front of the Whizzers' hangar. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1030 194. This is the same picture seen in #191. Towed behind the hangar and showing major damage to the tailfin, V10 "VI+AE" lies derelict next to Me 262 C-2a "V074". Note its replaced nose unit. On 6 July 1945, the Whizzers' two-seater Me 262 B-1a W.Nr. 110639, now named "Willie" and numbered "555" piloted by Lt. Robert A. Anspach, on landing at Cherbourg-Querquerville, suffered a nosewheel failure to deploy and touched down on its nose and forward engine cowls. Replacements were quickly flown in from Lechfeld and 110639 was repaired before being cocooned and shipped to the USA. In an article about this aircraft, David E. Brown wrote: "In 1993 the Navy agreed to allow "555" to be used as a pattern for the new build machines being constructed by the "Me 262 Project" on condition that it be restored in return. During restoration it was discovered that the replacement nose that had been installed at Cherbourg was equipped with a unique gun area heating system. The only 262 that had an experimental gun compartment heating installed was the tenth prototype "V10", wk. nr. 130 005." |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Actually it was Richard Eger who discovered that gun heating while it was being restored in Seattle.
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1033
195. Like other Messerschmitt test aircraft at Lechfeld, Me 262 V9 W.Nr. 130004 "VI+AD" was used for experimentation. In December 1944 it was modified as the Hochgeschwindigkeitsjäger der Stufe I [HG I] with a Rennkabine, a tail plane swept back 40 degrees and modified wing leading edges. This blurry screenshot probably shows the first flight of this "high speed fighter" with its streamlined canopy at Lechfeld on 17 January 1945. To study the aerodynamics in flight, both sides of the fuselage from the front of the cockpit to the rear of the balkenkreuz were soon painted a dark colour to use tufts of cotton to indicate air flow. The tail configuration would prove to be unsatisfactory. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1034 196. In this enlargement of the photo in #193, V9 "VI+AD" is seen parked in front and to the left of the Whizzers' hangar at Lechfeld, virtually intact and upright. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1035 197. After the Whizzers had left Lechfeld on 10 June 1945, their usefulness over, the spare Me 262s were towed behind the hangar to lay derelict over the next winter before being scrapped. Tipped up, "VI+AD" is seen here among them. The werknummer 500853 of white-surround "29" can be seen on the tail of the Me 262 to the left. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1036 198. Another view of V9 "VI+AD" among the derelicts, with possible cable damage at the balkenkreuz. Note that a standard canopy and tail plane are now seen on it. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
Thank you.
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
You're welcome, Dan. There's more to come.
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
On page 58 of Brown etal., Messerschmitt Me 262 Production & Arado Ar 234 Final Operations, (JaPo, 2012), there is an aerial frontal view of the Whizzers' hangar showing most of the Me 262s that were used as spares along with the some of their identities. The exceptions were W.Nr.s 110956 and 113363 out of camera range to the left.
By chance I came across a short video segment that shows the situations of those on the left hand side of the hangar. Please excuse these very blurry screenshots that are taken from Wings of the Luftwaffe-Me-262. The brief sequence starts at 37:06. I include the following screenshots to illustrate the placement of the Me 262s on the left side. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1038 199. The cameraman is standing on the road in front of the Whizzers' hangar to the left of it and will pan through 90 degrees to the right. Seen here are Me 262 A-1a/U3 W.Nr. 500539 white-surround "33", left, and Me 262 V10 W.Nr. 130005 "VI+AE" both on their noses. Out of camera range immediately to the left was Me 262 V11 170074 "V074" and further off were Me 262 A-1s W.Nr. 110956 white "17"+S and W.Nr. 113363. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1039
200. Panning right, two more Me 262s are seen about 30 meters from the front left corner of the hangar. Upright and with its engines intact is Me 262 V9 W.Nr. 130004 "VI+AD" and behind it is most likely Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 500005 white "14"+S also with its engines but tipped on its nose. Just coming into view at the right is the aircraft adjacent to W.Nr. 500539 "33", Me 262 C-1a W.Nr. 130186 "V186". http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1040 201. This is a good view of the size of the hangar. Note that "V186" lacks its Jumo 004 engines and has an emergency rocket-fuel dumping pipe below its rear fuselage. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1041 202. After panning right, four Me 262s are seen lined up on the left side behind the road in front of the left side of the hangar. From left to right are Me 262 C-1a W.Nr. 130186 "V186", an unknown Me 262 with a high demarcation of its upper camouflage, Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110526 white "15"+S of III./EJG 2 and finally Me 262 A-1a/U3 W.Nr. 500853 white-surround "29" of III./EJG 2. Out of camera range to the right across the road from white "15"+S is a noseless W.Nr. 170303 "V303" sitting on its tail. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1042
203. This poor photo shows Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 500005 white "14"+S of III./EJG 2 in the winter of 1945-46. The trees are similar to those behind the Whizzers' hangar but so far I do not know its exact location. Note the angle of the barely visible, collapsed nosewheel strut. Other pictures show that the white "S" seen here on the port side is larger than that on the starboard. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1043 204. This screenshot shows the Me 262 C-1a W.Nr. 130186 "V186", the Heimatschützer I with a Walter HWK RII/211 rocket engine in the rear of the fuselage, being tested in late February or March 1945. The concept was a rocket boosted interceptor to high altitude. It too has an emergency rocket fuel jettison pipe under the rear fuselage. As we have seen, it was parked without Jumo 004 engines in front of the hangar. O'Connell, p. 40, says that "after the war the rear fuselage was examined by the RAF at RAE Farnborough." There is no sign of it behind the hangar. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1044
205. After fuselage tests at Rechlin, this Me 262 A-1a was assigned to III./EJG 2 at Lechfeld as W.Nr. 110526 white "15"+S. It was found abandoned at Lechfeld at the end of April 1945 by American troops. If you look closely you will see that the upper tip of the hakenkreuz is missing. The nose also has a small white cap with a black ring behind it similar to that of W.Nr 111617 white "9" of III./EJG 2. The massive tent in the background is the same one seen behind the left side of the Whizzers' hangar in the picture on page 58 of Brown etal., Messerschmitt Me 262 Production.... http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1032 206. This is another look at the colour photo. Here, the tail of W.Nr. 500853 "29" can be seen above the port wing of the tipped up W.Nr. 130005. Above the starboard wing, the camouflage on white "15" stands out. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1045 207. In this photo, taken in the winter of 1945-46 behind the hangar, resting on its tail, the werknummer 110526 can be made out and the white-surround red "S" is clearly seen. Also the reason for the missing tip of the hakenkreuz turns out to be an unusual solid-coloured tail-tip on the port side, possibly the same shade and shape as that on in the port side of Me 262 B-1a W.Nr. 110639 "35" of III./EJG 2. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1059
208. This photo shows white-surround "29" photo-recce Me 262 A-1a/U3 with damage to the base of its tail fin indicating that a wire cable had been used to drag it to this spot in front of the Whizzers' hangar to be cannibalized for parts. Its Junker Jumo 004 turbine engines are seen intact here. Note its missing hatch over the balkenkreuz giving access to the FuG 16 ZY apparatus used for Y-fuhrung. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1060 An enlargement of the right side of this photo of FW 190 white "40", which was facing the hangar, shows three Me 262s lined up on the left side. Nearest is "29" whose Jumo 004 engines are now missing. David E. Brown etal., Messerschmitt Me 262 Production & Arado Ar 234 Final Operations, (JaPo, 2012). p. 90, identifies "29" as W.Nr. 500853 with photographic evidence. Note that the Me 262 behind "29" is missing the top tip of its hakenkreuz on its port side. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1061 210. In all photographs of Me 262 A-1a/U3 W.Nr. 500853 white-surround "29" showing it behind the hangar, it has suffered damage to the upper tip of its tail. Seen here in the winter of 1945-1946, it has been left to the elements. Beneath its port wing to the right is Me 262 A-1b W.Nr. 170078 "V078" with its uncamouflaged fuselage, wings and tail plane, but missing its rudder and upper fin. |
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1063
211. These are photos which by their camo pattern are possibly of Me 262 A-2a W.Nr. 170303 before it became the second V7 and received the white "V303" on the nose that would indicate that it was a Messerschmitt test frame at Lechfeld. While lacking bomb racks at this stage, the single white gun rectangle indicated that there were only two MK 108 cannon and the upper gun ports had probably been faired over at the factory. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1064 212. By February 1945, W.Nr 170303 had become the second V7 and had the white "V303" on the nose, but had exchanged its tail unit for one of the experimental wooden ones with the distinctive black and white kaulquappe [tadpole] motif. Now with bomb racks, the single gun rectangle still indicated only two MK 108s but for some reason the upper gun ports were opened. At this time "V303" was testing the use of 1000 kg thrust booster rockets to help lift a 1000 kg dummy bomb into the air. An accident with these boosters on 28 February at Lechfeld ended the flying career of "V303". In May 1945 it was noseless and found on the left side in front of the Whizzers' hangar tipped on its tail across the road from white "15"+S. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1065 213. This is a view of the rear left corner of the hangar with white "17"+S parked parallel to the left side. Behind the nose of "17" many towed Me 262s lie derelict. Seen among them, tipped on its tail is "V303". http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1066 214. As we have seen in #210, the top of W.Nr. 170078's fin was missing. This is where it went. While the werknummer on the mismatched tail fin reads "170078", it is attached to the fuselage of the noseless "V303". On page 82 of Brown, etal., Messerschmitt Me 262 Production ..., there is a photo of the mismatched airframe in full. I do not know when or why the tail tip was substituted. It does not have a kaulquappe pattern. |
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