Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

hello Thomas,

First of all: the enlarged intake is NOT a distinctive feature for the A-7 subtype as has been written over and over again. The discovery of that popular, but erronous misconception, was done by Ron Ferguson who has written a research paper on the He219. There is photographic evidence that enlarged air intakes were also applied (or modified later) on 'early' A-0 subtypes.

Secondly: the air intake you see on the (beautiful!) photo is not related to the engine but the Kärcher heating system. I mixed up these too once :)

Yes, you have read it well: the A-5 was just a planned production model for which some prototypes were prepared/modified but this subtype never went into any substantial (10 or more) production. It is comparible to the planned B-1. It was never produced but of the D-1 at least 5 aircraft have been built in Wien-Schwechat.

I am certainly not the He219 expert, but I built an extensive database on the He219's, thanks to the much appreciated support from air war reseachers all over the world and many contributors of this board and Peter D. Evans Luftwaffe Experten Message Board (www.luftwaffe-experten.org). Since March 2011 a new, intensive effort has been made to assemble and process as many primary sources in order to put an end to the many myths and anomalies. Thus, a better insight in the complete He219 production (exceeding the 300!) is just one of the results which will be published in a planned He219 reference work.

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Thanks Marcel

Until this monday the 219 was just one of many great plane, but since I was there it has turned into something else! Still an amateur on that one, but trying to learn (fast) :-)

By the way - the glass (?) covering the landing lights were amber coloured - was that normal or is it because of all the years on the bottom of the ocean? Surpriced me.

With regards to models - cannot wait for the new Revell 1/32 He219!!

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Ju88 had amber landing light covers. :)

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello

I have just spoken to a person,who has seen the crash in daytime, before the liberation of Denmark in 1945.

He said that he heard the plane come in low altitude from land towards the sea, but suddenly became quiet (Motorstop) and ditched in the water.


Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Kim,

That's great news, an eye witness after all ! 1945 would also confirm the thesis that this crash can't have happened earlier than September/October 1944.

The most obvious questions to ask:
- was it before or after the liberation of Denmark?
- where is the camera footage of this ditching? ;)

Good luck! Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

By the way Marcel

If you are going to talk to your Daimler-Benz expert friend, could you ask why the later models (cannot remember here if it was the 603, but certainly the 605) used different compression ratio's in the two cylinder banks? I have been wondering that for some time and haven't gotten a definitive answer yet.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Kim,
I have been thinking that since the crash was so close to the shore, the lifeboat from Hirtshals must have been involved in the rescue so there must be a note in their log, and there must be an entry in the KTB of the Hafenkapitän.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi,
The KTB has not been preserved, so now our hopes are on the records of the life boat.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Michaël,

In a discussion forum about Luftwaffe subjects, this question must be asked elsewhere perhaps BUT: are there KTB's of the German infantery units defending the Danish coastline?

Just loud thinking! All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Marcel,
I'm sure there were, but I'm afraid they are gone with the Nerobefehl as well. We have, however, located the records of the lifeboat in Hirtshals. The www has been glowing here in Denmark all day. Jørn will have a hard time chatching up when he gets home from work.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

http://www.danas-have.dk/images/HE219/img_5847.jpg

This shape of prop bends indicate power was "off" on this engine. Usually when "power-on" engine props hit water they bend forward.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Forgot to congradulate on this remarkable find and recovery. Very interesting.
Some questions, Has wing been turned over for checking if remains of a code letter or remains of Stkz. are on underside? Is there dataplate on left aileron also? Photos do not show any.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

No I won't. I have followed it at workhttp://forum.12oclockhigh.net/images/icons/icon10.gif.

Junker

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

are you on Facebook too :rolleyes:
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Yes but rarely look it up.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

If a code cannot be found on the wings, it was common practice to write the werk inside the fuselage, as well as on the reverse of large access hatches (radio, first aid, etc.).

Would definietly check there...

Mike

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Dear all,

Ed North: thanks for this interesting observation of the prop blades, didn't know that but makes perfectly sense!

SES/Jörn: we really should try to find more on the exploits of the I./NJG 3 in Denmark (shouldn't you already have done so) because it seems more and more that this He219 loss occurred exactly in the time span between the I./NJG 3 receiving their first He219's and the 7 He219's found at Grove after VE-Day.

The NJ-Staffel Norway had only 1 He219 and that turned up sound and well on Kastrup/Kopenhagen. I do hope that ULTRA one day might reveal a hint or direct information about a He219 loss near the Danish coast... Knowing the Werkenummer is one thing, knowing the date would be the next challenge.

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Unfortunately I cannot add anything about the history of this plane, but I want to congratulate you with this very exciting find! :D A unique aircraft!
I'm really looking forward to know more about its history and to see the parts after cleaning. Good luck and keep up the good work! ;)

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

One B4+AA is given as 210901, Wn looks strange for an He219, but I hv also an 210905...

Rémi

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

Is there anyone who can tell what the numbers mean in row 11,
picture 4 and 5 ??

and from which part of the plane ??

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Here are some comments by one of the staffers who restored the NASM HE-219 when looking at these photos:.

The serial number plate will be a triangle...

I see many recognizable bits and pieces…..

Particularly interested in the bits of blue cable. That’s the radar coax… Might end in the remnants of a mast?

The German wiring is AMAZING…. looks brand new!

Somewhere in the mess of the cockpit is an explosive charge as well. Left side, by the pilots knee. Trigger/fuse for it was on the cockpit wall below the canopy rail. Don't know if it is still an issue.

Tony

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Almost cerainly part of the Werke Nummer. Seems to include ...3116

Does this number match He 219 Werke Nummer batches?

This is typical of Luftwaffe aircraft and the standard style and pattern of painted Werke Nummers on the inside of panels.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Remi, Kim and Andy

Remi: 210901 was the first of a small batch of Rostock produced He219's, the last being Wnr. 210905 (in that batch). The next Rostock He219's were also A-0's with Werkenummer 2111xx. Then the A-2 came, starting with Wnr. 290001 and so on...

Kim: I think we are looking to a sort of fuel tank, see the hoses on the upper side. I will check my extensive He219 compendium with drawings and let you know soon

Andy: I am sorry to disappoint you but there was no He219 Werkenummer ending with 3116, perhaps a parts number but must check that either in the Ersatzteilliste

The NASM comments about the triangular Werkenummer tag of the whole aircraft has been discussed before, it could be found in the rear section of the aircraft, just after the Kärcher heater but unfortunately, the tail section has not been traced yet.

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Marcel

I will bow to your undisputed knowledge of the He 219!

However, that painted number is identical in every respect to the painted W.Nr found on the inside of panels/equipment in most Luftwaffe aircraft of the period. Just unfortunate it isn't the number we are looking for after all.

I do not know if Steve Polyak has a He 219 data plate in his collection (possibly he bought one from me some years back??) but I'm sure he will post here if he has. The triangular plate was typical on a number of types; do we know if the 219 plates were steel or alloy? Some I have seen were steel.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Using Ju 88 data as comparision:
Re NASM info. Triangular plate in tail was Auxiliary Plate, "standard Luftwaffe" from year 1941. This was in case of airframe was burned to ashes, this could be used in verifying the wreck. Usually an main dataplate was somewhere up front, on or near cockpit, do not know if this applied also to He 219.
Number "3116" and other faint letters seem grade standard alumin plate stencils. Best info yet is from flap plate. Anyone know what the CTO stood for? 707 maybe inspector stamp, if not might be part/line number serial (part serial).

regards
Ed

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

I also see you have the mutterkompass.

I have often seen these with the aircraft W.Nr painted in black onto the grey body. Worth a look??

The radio tuning dials of the Fug radio sets (what did the He 219 have?) also often had them stamped into the metal of the dial.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

"SES/Jörn: we really should try to find more on the exploits of the I./NJG 3 in Denmark (shouldn't you already have done so) because it seems more and more that this He219 loss occurred exactly in the time span between the I./NJG 3 receiving their first He219's and the 7 He219's found at Grove after VE-Day"

Hi Marcel.

I have made extensive research into this matter, but hav'nt found a trace of a He 219 loss in the hands of I/NJG 3.

Junker

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

A 097 was in Flensburg late january , beg. of february, probably 190097...

Rémi

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Belonged to I/NJG 1.

Junker

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

Andy.
Good idea to look for the number at the mother compass. We will look for it as soon as possible!

Are there others in this forum who have ideas where we should look for numbers, you can see what we have of the plane in the pictures.

Tonight there will come more pictures from photo camere 2,
maybe there are new details.

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Kim,
It is my undersatnding that you have not located the tail section, is that correct?

@ Andy. A He219 was equipped with the FuG10 and FuG16ZY.

bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Kim

Although I am not familiar with the He 219 (!!) I would imagine that it is likely it follows other Luftwaffe types that have the Werke nummer painted in black numerals (about 1cm) on the reverse of removable panels; eg cowlings, inspection hatches, re-fuelling points etc etc. These numerals are the same style as the numbers that I mistakenly took to be the W.Nr on this wreckage. Just look for any trace of painted numbers on the inside of panels would be my advice. It might well be more reliable than looking for a data plate, and if you find such a number repeated then you clearly will have the W.Nr. From the looks of it, some paintwork/painted numbers under the mud and encrustations have survived so you might be lucky. I hope so!

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello SES

Unfortunately, we are still missing the right engine and tail.

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Kim, What would be the 'standard operating procedure' - if any - for fishermen to get parts like these in their trawl? Dump it again I'm afraid.

The thing is - I can see the tail being somewhere else, possibly broken off at first impact with water and then water currents or trawl, but the engine is a very heavy piece of equipment...

If accidentally picked up by fishermen and then dumped they could be anywhere.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Just a brief personal comment: what a very encouraging and joyful feeling it is, that so many different contributors with their specific expertise join and support this search for the identity of this He219 !!

As a good, deceased friend of mine always told me: it is not what you know, but who you know... (and then 'what they know' is the bonus).

Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hopefully there is very little trawling going on in the area. If my understanding is correct the wreck was about 500 m off shore.
Please see attachment for an impression of the hydrography.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Correction from post #105 : Anyone know what the CLO stood for? 707 maybe inspector stamp number (ie. number of the inspector), if not might be part/line number (ie. serial of part). He 177 had similar component numbers painted but four digit ones.

Anyways, Its quite exciting to wait for further pictures of cleaned up items.
I agree on looking for W.Nr., it might appear on inportant instruments, major parts, detachable items, hatches, doors, etc. But these can also have a catch, having "travelled" between planes on if repairs had been done.

@Marcel. Can you give aprox. breakdown of how may were made by each factory? Just curious.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

On the NASM HE-219, several of access panels on the bottom of the wing had a "202" hand painted on the inside of the panels. Also, on the inside of the wingtips, the full serial number was hand written in pencil.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

The guys on the ship said that there were some fishing in that area.
500m offshore is about correct.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

How do we know that this aircraft was dumped over board post war,and the plane was been taken Too- GB-but a storm came and damaged the plane ..then threw the said plane overboard.. then afterwards trawlers hooks picked up parts and dumped back in the sea...
my 50%
sharon