Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi Ed,

Thanks for finding those images (1-3) of three different Blenheims, all new to me. I cannot fully identify any of them unfortunately, but the first is an 18 Squadron aircraft 'WV-E' or 'F'. The second could be 'OM-B' of 107 Squadron. Concerning the third I have no clue.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks Ed for sharing.

Martin

#2 is OM*B-R3606 : Same a/c with same holes and painting for the
B.

Attachment 19833

Bertrand

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Bertrand

I am not that certain
R3606 crashed 10 July 1940 in an open field and looks very intact.
The one referred to now, has crashed, been abandoned or dragged into some bushy forrested area.
Seller also claims it is 1941 and at Boulogne, possibly meaning the outskirts of Paris (which does not fit the crash place of R3606 at Amiens.

I know, I know, E-bay seller.....but still? Can't be all guesswork, could it? :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

You're welcome gents. I've learned a lot here.



Best,
Ed

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi Stig and Bertrand,

another photo from same seller:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-en...cAAOSwoQ5fd4JQ

Maybe same place and some scrapy yard....?

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Clearly Blenheim IV - R3606 has been moved from it's original resting place to either the outskirts of the existing landing field or to another location. But if to another location why?
The usual practice was for the recovery units (Bergebattalions) to recover enemy aircraft for either further examination or scrapping etc. Any large collections of Allied enemy equipment were put into temporary Beute-Sammlung (Collection points) to see what was to be salvaged - aircraft were usually dealt with at the various airfields where they were to be initially located at and dealt with there en-masse. Odd aircraft could be found at the Collection points but this was rare.
These photos of odd Blenheim wrecks appear to be from one perhaps the same location and moved to the edges of open fields - this was sometimes done if the Germans wanted this as a new or a dummy-airfield with existing usually French aircraft used as decoys. If the Germans wanted to use a particular piece of land (possibly ex French or an Allied landing ground for themselves then any wrecks would be shipped to the edges of the field and could be left there for some time. Sorry I cannot comment on whether the locxations are at Amiens or Bolougne.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

If a dummy airfield was set up, crashed Allied aircraft in the open might have aroused suspicion. Normally, such aircraft were recovered, after examination and desired parts removed, and then taken to collection points. This may have been a case where no one was available to recover the aircraft before the land was needed for a dummy airfield. The hidden aircraft could then be taken away at the earliest opportunity.


Ed

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

#1287 :
Thank you very much Tom :) for this detailed analysis and for confirming that it is indeed the same aircraft ; what wrote Ed with anybdy was available to recover the aircraft before the land was needed for a dummy airfield could also why this Blenheim is still here. On another photo (old ebay) of the R3606 we have in a background some wood.
Have the same wreck with the same letter "B" painted on the edge of the cockade, two identical holes could obviously only be the same Blenheim ....

Bertrand

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Wehrma...QAAOSwVJ9fdzin
Photo album
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Fotoalbum-Be...sAAOSww-lfewI2
Off topic
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BEST-KOd-Ru...YAAOSwZbpfdzYy

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Q028-Foto-We...EAAOSwTrxffLTO
Off topic
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Q027-Foto-We...UAAOSwRrVffLRX

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks Ed

#1293 link 1 : n°65 sqdn, YT-F P7697 lost on 21/08/41

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi Bertrand, I have this Spit like YToE - but maybe I´m wrong ……

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi all,

...Spitfire from 80 OTU with marking 3H?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Flugzeu...EAAOSwdVBffXpD

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

#1296

it is F

Attachment 19851

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

You're welcome Bertrand.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks for confirmation Bertrand! :-)

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Since MA222 is known to have served with 80OTU before being handed over to Armée de l'Air, I would say you are very much correct.

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi Stig,

yes and thanks . do you have some info about service of this machine at France? I have just short info, that this machine served in Morocco….and of course during service by Polish squadrons (315., 303., 308., maybe 317. Sq and then 229. Sq).



Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi Faenor

It seems the French were not very keen to record their Spitfires in detail.
This aircraft was filed in French records as ML222 and is known to have been allocated to France on 8 March 1946 and to have arrived into BE 708 at Meknès on 14 March the same year. It was coded 'A'
Aircraft is mentioned in records both in 1949 and Nov 1950, but then nothing further is known.
I doubt it ever returned to France (record keeping was much better there than in North Africa, it seems), so in all likelyhood it was wfu some time after 1951 and probably scrapped by some local dealer.

Cheers
Stig

PS: To understand the French thinking regarding British aircraft and their serial numbers, it seems at least pilots basically never understood the point with prefix letters, so most pilots and probably a lot of the record keeping clerks simply left out such "annoying details" and what we have left are just the digits, which of course makes life a lot easier for the historians interested in details like that.... :)

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Frankreich-f...0AAOSwMBFfhDG8
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Q307-Foto-We...gAAOSwBrxfhG81

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

1309 #1

PH-AKP Douglas-Fokker DC-2-115E 1362.22 PH-AKP KLM 'Perkoestoet' 07.05.35 2.169 Destroyed Schiphol 10.5.40

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

1308 #3

Beaufighter T3324 (272 Sqn) aircraft shot down and crashed near El Aghelia, Libya, 10 February 1942.

Crew PoW
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/238847

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

That was interesting. For those who have MAW Vol 2 (page 184) the authors have mispoled the two aircraft lost that date.
T3324 was clearly 'N', so
T4836 must then have been coded 'S'

However the authors of MAW 2 have chosen to state this loss happened on the 9th (not the 10th)
So did Jim Halley in his RAF T1000 - T9999 booklet.

The losses are not mentioned in the text anywhere, so no help there.

Can someone conclusively say if the 9th or 10th is the correct date?

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi all,

post 1313 link 1-3 - looks like capture of single person) - on the 1 photo, there is date 27.6.1941 - from this date, I have 2 captured fighter pilots from Circus 25 - both from 74.SQ:
P/O W.J. Sandman Spitfire W3120 - there are photos of his crashlanded machine
P/O C.G. Hilken Spitfire W3252

Is possible, that on the photos is one from them? Maybe Sandman:
Sandman photo:
https://www.aucklandmuseum.com/war-m...record/C122150
Hilken:
http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/as-hilken.htm

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

hi

#1315

Good shot Faenor; to confirm this lead that seems serious, knowing the size of Sandman could definitely confirm that it is him ; does anybody know ?

In the last book La Luftwaffe en France 1939-1945, tome 1 (Arès, 2020) by Jean-Louis ROBA we have page 192 these infos from Claims by Flak on coastal side ; on 27/06/1941 : A Spit shot down at 12h30 following shots by "Batterie Lapin" and another one at 12h22 by "Batterie Prinz Eugen".


Bertrand

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: Posts 1311 and 1312.
The ORB has -
9th February 1942
a/c "N" - Sgt. PURLEY(pilot) and Sgt. CROSSLEY(Wop/Obs).
a/c "S" - Sqn/Ldr. HOGGARTH(pilot) and F/O. SPROATES(Wop/Obs).

10th,11th and 12th no opps.

AIR81/12069 has -Squadron Leader J V Hoggarth, Pilot Officer G Sproates: prisoners of war; Beaufighter T4836, 272 Squadron; aircraft shot down and crashed near El Aghelia, Libya, 10 February 1942; Sergeant D Pearcy, Sergeant J G Crossley: prisoners of war; Beaufighter T3324 272 Squadron; aircraft shot down and crashed near El Aghelia, Libya, 10 February 1942

Therefore
a/c "N" must have been T3324
and
a/c "S" must have been T4836.

See also - http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...y-POW-No-24768

Re: eBay: Allied intrest