Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)

- Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8)

- - eBAy: Captured german planes (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=45190)

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Hi,
Thanks Rudi for this link.
A G-6/R2 of what I believe to be a 2./NAGr.15 machine, with Red code.
Regards,
Franck.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Actually a WNF built G-8. Great find, thanks RudiS.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 262147)

Actually a WNF built G-8. Great find, thanks RudiS.

Eh no, except if you have a loss record all in WNF 230000 to 230900 are G-6/R2 except some, very few.
Prien; a F,G & K Illustrated story.
Regards,
Franck.

PS: Update. JCM in his Bf109, Caraktère publish. gives the following listing: G-6/R2: 230100, 230801. and G-8 230100, 230120 (?)
Note (2) Michael Balss gives – loss list – the following
230132 G-8/R5
230155 (?) G-8
230292 G-8/R5
230801 G-8/R2

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thanks for the corrections/precisions, Franck ! Much appreciated. Further to that, the loss list compiled by George Morrison et al. has two close W.Nr.'s: 230500 and 230502. They are both listed as G-6's.

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

You are welcome Marc.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

If it helps, W.Nr. 230500, "65" (Ofhr. Karl-Heinz Pieper) was lost by 3./NAG 1 on 11 February 1945 and is described in ULTRA CX/MSS/R461(C),16 as a G-6.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thank you Nick.
This does confirm the loss report in GQM (767/2, 2; Lw.Kdo.West)
Regards,
Franck.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thank you for both links Rudi.
The He111 was found at Hötting, while the Fw190 at Insbruck-Reichenau; the Me262 behind being "Weisse 8".
Regards,
Franck.

Correction: "Weisse 1", indeed.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Hello Rudi,
Thank you for posting these photos.
I have been researching the Fw 190 illustrated in Post #1489 for many years now. It was probably photographed at Einsatzhafen Innsbruck-West, while its WNr., beginning with a “4,” points to its being an Arado or NDW-built Fw 190 F-9/R1.
I am presently awaiting photos which may bring my quest to an end.
Respectfully,
Steve Sheflin

PS: I have tried repeatedly to get rid of the bold type in my text, but have failed miserable.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Hello Steve,

Interesting "Innsbruck-West" is Innsbruck-Hötting, isn't it ? ;)
It's amazing to find this name in your post since, as far I know, we used, for years, to name it Hötting instead.

Regards,
Franck.

PS: Henry deZeng gives one Innsbruck aka Innsbruck-Reichenau, aka Innsbruck/Ost. .. And a third Innsbruck (without aka, not in NZ team it seems!)

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Hello Frank,
My source for designating the Fw 190 F-9 airfield as being Innsbruck-West is as usual:
Luftwaffe Airfields 1935-45
By Henry L. deZeng IV
Following are four excerpts from his book regarding airfields near Innsbruck, Austria.

Innsbruck (AUS) (47 16 09 N – 11 24 14 E)
Lw. Garrison and Station Units (on the airfield, in the city or nearby on
various dates – not complete):
Innsbruck (AUS) (a.k.a. Innsbruck-Reichenau, Innsbruck/Ost) (47 16
30 N – 11 25 20 E)
General: pre-war civil airport (Zivilflughafen) in Austria 2.5 km ENE of
Innsbruck city center and just S of the Inn River. History: the Luftwaffe
began using it in 1938 after the Anschluss but no record has been found of
any Luftwaffe units having been permanently stationed there. Surface and
Dimensions: well-kept grass surface measuring approx. 640 x 550 meters
(700 x 600 yards) and rectangular in shape. Infrastructure: had 2 small
hangars with paved aprons, plus 1 medium hangar. Admin buildings were
on the N boundary near the small hangars and a barracks complex was off
the N boundary. Nearest rail connection in Innsbruck. Dispersal: no
organized dispersals. Defenses: protected by the Innsbruck Flak belt.
Remarks: the Innsbruck marshaling yards were bombed numerous times by
15th AAF heavy bombers between Dec 43 and Dec 44, but the airfields there
do not appear to have been intentionally targeted.
Feb 45: airfield still listed as operational.
Operational Units: none identified.
Hötting (AUS): see Innsbruck/West.
Innsbruck-West (AUS) (a.k.a. Innsbruck-Hötting) (47 15 35 N – 11
21 00 E)
General: operational airfield (Einsatzhafen) in Austria 5 km W of Innsbruck.
History: construction began in mid-1943 and leveling work was still
underway in mid-April 1944. Surface and Dimensions: grass surface
measuring approx. 915 x 275 meters (1000 x 300 yards). Infrastructure:
none (Apr 44). Dispersal: no organized dispersal.
Remarks: none.
Operational Units: NSGr. 9 (May 45); 6.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 122 (May 45).
Station Commands: none identified.
Note that the only operational units listed in May 1945 were at Innsbruck-West, including NSGr. And 6.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 122.
Respectfully,
Steve Sheflin

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

It’s not really accurate to describe NSGr. 9 as being operational once they had retreated to Innsbruck. I learned from veterans and preserved letters that it had been intended to go back into action from there but a combination of booging down, inability to secure necessary supplies and political upheaval in the city (a “free Austria” movement rose up) meant that the idea was abandoned, the crews holing up in an Alpine chalet until the US Army arrived.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

#1497
Most are from München-Riem Airfield in 1945. On one you may even notice a Fw 190 D from JV 44.

Regard
Carl

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thanks for sharing that, Carl. Very much appreciated.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Jim Crow collection has 5 images of the Ju 88 identified as C9+DH, it appears from these the W.Nr. is 714084. The Ju 88 tentatively identified as an "A" I would guess was more likely an "S" or "T" based on the nose enclosure.

Best Regards,

ArtieBob

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thanks Artie, for this appreciated confirmation. Good to know that I./JG 5 did actually receive it's first Ju 88 G-1's already whilst being based at Saint-Dizier; I was unsure of that.

As for the Ju 88 "A", I first thought of the "S" variant but was troubled by seeing the visor housing under the cabin. Is this a common Ju 88 S or T feature ?

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Dear Marc-Andre,

I didn't look close enough, missed the housing for the bomb sight optics which would pretty much confirm the Ju 88 would be a bomber "S".

Best regards,

Artie Bob

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudiS (Post 263059)

Does anyone have an ID on this Me 262?
https://unh4vq.am.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-3-Orig...s/273635069343

https://unfd4q.am.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-Origina...s/254047482820

The Ju 52 pic is a photo from the Army Signal Corps collection available at NARA.

With and without snow.
(You'll notice in the snow photo that the description lists it as a FW 190, but the photo number 190060-s is the same on the front and back of the photo. Mis-identification on photos isn't that uncommon. NARA tends to leave the original WWII description "as is" whether right or wrong.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Hi Gents,

Thanks Rudi for your amazing finds...; And all my best wishes for 2019.

A new photo of a well known Me262 wreck and much pictured one on Augsburg-München highway .. but no ID so far.

As for the G-6, we think it's a TS+MB at Schlessheim of T.S.(3).

Regards,
Franck.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by ouidjat (Post 263071)

Hello Gang,

Further to your ID, Franck, here is an aerial shot of Fliegertechnischen Schule 3, Schleissheim, May 1945. Source: photo Klaus Mai via https://www.wochenanzeiger.de/article/141279.html

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Some more photos with W.Nr. questions:

1. Fw 190 F-8 W.Nr. 933426 "Gelbe 9", II./JG ?:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-190-404341834

2. Fw 190 A-8 W.Nr. 171680, II./JG ?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...original-photo

3. Fw 190 D-9, possibly W.Nr. 211046, JG 26.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...hter-133099978

Any informations known ?

Thanks in advance
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

And one more just flew by:

Fw 190 F-8 W.Nr. 586178.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...hJIaBqxicPjddc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by ouidjat (Post 263071)

Thanks Rudi for your amazing finds...; And all my best wishes for 2019.
Regards,
Franck.

Best wishes for 2019 to you too, Franck.

https://uneupw.am.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Groupi...p/123575529311

https://ungtyg.am.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAF-WW2-LUF...H/173719830129

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Captured-B-17-w-German-Markings-Altenburg-Germany https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-GI-...sAAOSwPg9cMoso

Phyllis Marie, a Boeing B-17F. Phyllis Marie made a forced landing with battle damage on March 8, 1944, at Werben, Germany. U.S. forces recaptured the plane on a runway at Altenburg on May 4, 1945. https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=142855

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/pictur...&pictureid=600
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Captured-Ge...4AAOSw~llcMZch
Fritzlar

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/pictur...&pictureid=601

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudiS (Post 263326)

https://unhjsw.am.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://ungaeq.am.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WW...e/292908433073

Though hard to see, this Bf 109 G looks like an Erla built Bf 109 G-10, the flat panel being "almost" discernible. The fuselage skin damage pattern under the rear cockpit made me think of Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 490 708 "Schwarze 7", Uffz. Franz Mörl, 2./JG 3, shot down west of Aachen, 24 December 1944. BUT the spinner is without spiral on your photo; Mörl's one had this conspicuous pattern, so this is a different machine altogether.

Thanks again for your haul, RudiS
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudiS (Post 263437)

https://unhqna.am.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-AVIATIO...T/333005642781

This catch is actually a Bf 109 K-4. Given its peculiar camouflage, I wonder if it is not one of the very few Erla built Bf 109 K-4 in the W.Nr. 570xxx range. I of course stand corrected.

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 263454)

After discussing this machine with Franck Benoiton, it is "only" a Bf 109 G-6, probably the same plane shown by the second photo.

Cheers
Marc