Re: Luftwaffe unit emblems - "Battle of Britain" era
 

...Another possible explanation would be that the emblem artist used the colour white for the presentation purposes only - in order to make the bird's body visible against its wings and tail in black.

Still looks to me like a cross between the said two birds of prey.

Sidney

Re: Luftwaffe unit emblems - "Battle of Britain" era
 

Thank you for the picture Peter, very much appreciated!

Studying this variant I find that it shows some differences to the versions seen on the photos I have posted on this thread:

• The shape of the wings is different. The aircraft versions have more elongated wings with markedly more pointed tips.

• The position the wings are shown is different. The needle has an obvious U-shaped area between the wings which is different on the aircraft versions and more V-shaped.

• The position of the head differs as the aircraft versions tend to show a head, or what ought to be intended to be a head at least, above an imaginary horizontal line where the body ends.

The pin version showing a head turned down below the above mentioned line.

When the emblem is painted on the fuselage it seems that a white background has been added to make the emblem stand out, this giving the aircraft version bird wings look as they have white wing primaries and secondaries tips.

The drawing based on the pin is an interesting addition to understanding the emblem.

Another conclusion is that the actual emblem as seen on the 109s or as per the pin are quite different from the version commonly seen in print, for example in "Luftwaffen Embleme 1939-1945" by Ketley and Rolfe, p.49. This "litterature version" is also posted further back on this thread for comparison.

There is also a small (very small?) chance that the eagle pin found on the pilot was coincidential and had nothing to do with the unit emblem, even if most Luftwaffe afficienados would turn that objection down, though I believe a skilled attorney could achieve it receiving "Circumstantial evidence" status at most in front of a court! :rolleyes:

Thanks again Peter!
Cheers!
Goran

Re: Luftwaffe unit emblems - "Battle of Britain" era
 

Goran,

You may accept it or reject it - that's your call. All I can tell you is that the pin came from that pilot. Paint on the fuselage or enamel on a pin are both subject to differences in interpretation I guess.

Re: Luftwaffe unit emblems - "Battle of Britain" era
 

It is likely that there is a connection between the image copied from the pin and the unit emblem. I'd say they are similar but different.

So far an important conclusion from both the pin image and the emblems from aircraft pictures posted, is that the emblem does not look like the published work I refer to in my previous post.

Thanks again for sharing.
Goran

Re: Luftwaffe unit emblems - "Battle of Britain" era
 

Hello,

I'm sending this "from the road" on my trip to Europe. After several days in France, I've had a chance to catch up with this discussion. This emblem IS and eagle. Think an American bald eagle with a white head. The head is not in a conventional pose, but the white head is turned at an angle to the left and pointing downward, like the eagle is looking at something below him. I've seen another example of this in Germany that absolutely confirms for me that this is an eagle. I also have many photos of the aircraft of 1./JG 26 during the spring-summer of 1940, and am very familiar with the dating of these photos by markings and camouflage patterns. There are at least three photos of 1./JG26 aircraft carrying this during the French Campaign. I probably have a half dozern photos now of Henrici's aircraft during the May-August, 1940 period, including a good copy of Don Caldwell's photos (thanks Don!).

Re: Luftwaffe unit emblems - "Battle of Britain" era
 

Hello,

I'm sending this "from the road" on my trip to Europe. After several days in Belgium and France, I'm back in Holland, and I've had a chance to catch up with this discussion. This emblem IS an eagle. Think an American bald eagle with a white head. The head is not in a conventional pose, but the white head is turned at an angle to the left and pointing downward at an oblique angle, like the eagle is looking at something below him and to the left from the viewer's point of view. I've seen another example of this in Germany that absolutely confirms for me that this is an eagle. I don't own this image, so I can't post it, even when I return to the US on the 15th. I also have several photos of the aircraft of 1./JG 26 during the spring-summer of 1940, and am very familiar with the dating of these photos by markings and camouflage patterns. I've been studying this subject for almost 50 years. There are at least three photos of 1./JG26 aircraft carrying this during the French Campaign. I probably have a half dozern photos now of Henrici's aircraft (White 13) during the May-August, 1940 period, including a good copy of Don Caldwell's photos (thanks Don!). Since Henrici is purported to be the designer of the image for use by the staffel, its use and appearance on his aircraft should be pretty definitive for the time period of its early use. This is a settled issue as far as I'm concerned.

Regards,

Larry Hickey

Re: Luftwaffe unit emblems - "Battle of Britain" era
 

Thank you Larry,

I am truly grateful for your input.

Looking forward to take part of the photos you refer to, if possible.

I am further interested in understanding what binds Henrici to the allegation of being “purported to be the designer of the image” as you claim.
Axel Urbanke in the article published in “Luftwaffe im Focus ed. 6/2004” refers to that Caldwell in “The JG 26 War Diary” vol. 1 claim that he took over from 8 September 1940. (page. 98, in photo caption he mentions no date but that Henrici took over 1./Staffel replacing the earlier “Grasshopper” emblem, and on p.326 Appendix II, “JG 26 Commanders 1936-1942”, he is stating 9 September 1940 as the day Henrici took over the Staffel (Pages according to my copy from Grub Street, London, 1996 issue.)
You state that photos actually show Henrici’s Bf 109 adorned with this eagle emblem between May and August 1940.
It would be nice to see these photos, if possible.

If Henrici used this emblem himself, for any good reason, before he took over the Staffel it is of course circumstantial evidence that he actually introduced it to 1./JG 26 when he took over.


Another aspect is the original or the inspiration to the emblem.

I find it rather unique that an American eagle species, or eagle emblem, would be the inspiration to a Luftwaffe emblem and I can not verify one single Third Reich era Luftwaffe emblem being inspired by an American eagle species so far. Please correct me. The eagle as a symbol in unit badges and heraldic is plethora in the Third Reich and also before in Germany, but not American eagles.

I claim there is no tradition of using American eagles in the Third Reich era Luftwaffe unit emblems.

(It would be interesting to know more about the reference you make in your reply Larry to that “I've seen another example of this in Germany that absolutely confirms for me that this is an eagle”)

I find it hard to believe that the Lafayette Escadrille emblems of WW1 would be seen as appropriate in the Third Reich. Or?
An interesting observation compromising my theory is that at least one Fw 190 A-8 of 13./JG 54 carried an “Navajo Chief” Indian head, possibly from the end of August 1944.
This information is taken from an article by Leonard Beitler and Axel Urbanke in “Luftwaffe im Focus Edition 5/2004, page 24-28”. On the other hand, Jazz music from USA was not seen as proper in Germany during the Third Reich era but was played anyway from time to time!

I observed that an image based on a pin sent by Peter Petrick to “Luftwaffe im Focus”, was published and commented on in Edition 8/2005, page 3, which I should have noticed earlier. This is the image similar to the one referring to the pin image posted also on this forum.

Larry, I am truly thankful for your reply and I understand and appreciate that you have studied the subject for 50 years – Here I appear as “the Devil’s Advocate” in testing the proof of the evidence in a way.

To me some findings are obvious after this dialogue:

• The emblem, as published in previous drawings and profiles, is not correct.
• The photos show varying images and possibly design variations of the emblem
• The “pin image” and the 1./JG 26 unit emblem in question are not identical
• The true original or master of this emblem is still hidden in the mist.
• I am probably a pain in the ### asking all these questions and posting again.

More photos and original material can possibly finally clarify this subject, if published.

I just want to ascertain the evidence behind the emblem, its design and its history.

Cheers
Goran Larsson