Re: Me110: Ill-used in BoB
 

I'm not certain I understand the above comment, Juha. Are you saying that the gunner in the 110 simply wore a lap strap, or are you saying that the gunner would not wear the lap strap. The latter would, in my view, be somewhat dangerous for the gunner if the pilot got into some extreme positions and he ended up being thrown out through the canopy top panel.

I'm sorry to hear that, John, as I have always found your books to be of excellent quality.

Re: Me110: Ill-used in BoB
 

Thank you George. Fernando and I did the 'C', 'D' & 'E'. Are you going to complete the set by doing the 'F' & 'G' given your extensive knowledge of these variants?

Re: Me110: Ill-used in BoB
 

Hello George
the gunner seat had very low back only up to the lumbar region, or what ever in English, and he was able to stand up if he wanted to fire downwards and for this he had a free standing belt attached to the floorboard. He well might also had a lap strap, at least for use during take offs and landings, but I'm not sure of that but probably he had. John surely knows the answer. Anyway he was not strapped onto his seat as tightly as pilot.

Juha

Re: Me110: Ill-used in BoB
 

Karl-Fritz Schröder (Bordfunker, Erpr. Gr. 210/SKG 210/ZG 1) told me they would normally sit facing forward at their radio equipment for take-off.

Re: Me110: Ill-used in BoB
 

Hello John
yes, with seat without high back that was the only logical position if the bordfunker didn't have 100% surety that there will be no crash.

Juha

Re: Me110: Ill-used in BoB
 

Thanks for that, Juha. But, the rear gun does not seem capable of firing downwards to any great degree. The field-of-fire diagram is for the 110E in which a framed cuff reduced the field-of-fire compared to earlier 110s. This was described as being introduced to prevent the shooting of the 110's rudders. Notice that in the attached diagram the gun can't even fire horizontally. Perhaps earlier gun set-ups could shoot beneath the horizon, but I haven't yet found any diagrams for these earlier set-ups.

In going through the 110 handbooks I found the following sketch which indicates that the radop/gunner had two seats, the forward, folding, one, with lap strap obviously, as John noted, for take-off and landing. And, the rear one for gunnery duties, with, as you mentioned, a strap attached to the cockpit floor.

Aw, John, you and Fernando did such a fine job on the 'C', 'D' & 'E' book that finishing the job with one on the 'F' and 'G' would be a great conclusion to your work on the Bf 110. I would be happy to help in any way that I could, but from your superb knowledge of the 'F' and 'G' that I have noted already, I can see that you would hardly need any.

Re: Me110: Ill-used in BoB
 

George,
I think that is not an 'E' variant. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but that diagram shows the earliest style of Bordfunker's central rear canopy, which is the fully enclosed type. Even before the 'E' came into service in late-1940, the central rear canopy could be seen with a central cutout in it for the rear MG to be seated centrally on a permanent basis. Also, some units removed the central canopy altogether.

Re: Me110: Ill-used in BoB
 

Although not really adding anything to the debate I just came across this image and thought I would post it here to supplement George's post as it a nice shot of the Bordfunker's position on the Me 110. The photo dates from Aug/Sep 1940.

Re: Me110: Ill-used in BoB
 

You're right, John, when you say that the sketch of the gunner's position was not for a 110E. In fact that was taken from the 110B/C handbook which was later expanded to include everything up the the "G". I included it only to show that during the time of the Battle of France and of Britain, the radop/gunner had two seats: one for use of the radio and for take-off and landing; and the other for gunnery.

My reference to the 110E was made only to the firing diagram that I enclosed.

Thanks for the great photo of the 110's gunner's position, Andy.

Re: Me110: Ill-used in BoB
 

Hello George
IMHO in Andy's photo WO/AG sits on his normal seat, ie on the rear one. It was rotaring or swinging seat, whatever is the right term in English. The same system was in many a/c with WO/AG so that he could use radio when facing forward and his mg when facing backwards. The forward WO/AG seat is a rarity, maybe because in early Bf 110s WO/AG must also reload MG FFs with new magazines he needed more space and could not reach radio controls from his gunner position he needed separate seat for WO work.

Juha