Re: RAF Non-operational loss 21 March 1944
 

Only supposition, but the second of the two Halifaxs that took off from Hurn immediately after JP137 that morning --that is JP107 ---was posted to 614 Squadron based at Celone, Italy, and was itself subsequently lost 'over Hungary' on 26th June 1944.
Does it seem reasonable that JP137 may have been also destined for 614 Squadron?

Certainly, it appears from personal family correspondence from one of the crew members, that the crew had been selected for SOE duties --although, as you can imagine, the correspondence does not go into any detail, for obvious security reasons.

The crash card lists the 'Unit' as 3 OADU, which was of course based at Hurn, and the command as 'Transport', but I'm guessing that is simply the 'in transit' documentation allocation?

Again, many thanks for those new TNA links - hopefully they will lead to more useful information.

Re: RAF Non-operational loss 21 March 1944
 

Hello Arjay

The Unit was No. 3 Overseas Aircraft Despatch Unit (OADU) based at Hurn. There is a No. 3 O.A.D.U. Operations Record Book (ORB) for the Unit, early WW2 ORBs I have looked at are not very detailed when it comes to crashes, but later ORBs might be better? There are Appendices and it ought to list all of the crew and you might get extra information. Always worth a look.

AIR 29/471
3 Overseas Aircraft Despatch Unit (OADU), Hurn (UK).
Jan 1943 to Nov 1944
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...accessmethod=0
Jan 1943 to Nov 1944

Being based at Hurn, crashing onto houses with civil deaths and the references to "C of I" on the Accident Card, there should be a Court of Inquiry too.

I will PM you with some interesting general pieces about C of I.

No. 44 Ferry (Service) Group ORBs are AIR 25/627 and AIR 25/636 ORB (Engineering) and AIR 25/634 ORB (Plans) AIR 25/636 (Operations) AIR 25/640 (Training) AIR 25/638 (Signals, Training, WAAF, Armament and Air Se Rescue); AIR 25/637 (Equipment, Intelligence, Medical) for 1944

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...accessmethod=5

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...accessmethod=5

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...accessmethod=5

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...accessmethod=5

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...accessmethod=5

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...accessmethod=5

TRANSPORT COMMAND should be in the region of AIR 24/1602 (Vol.1) AIR24/1603 (Vol.2); ONWARD and there are numerous ORBs and Appendices for you to look up in the AIR 24 paper indexes, (No links given).

RAF Station HURN ORB is in AIR 28/346
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...accessmethod=0

You should find the ORB Catalogue references in the AIR 25 (for Groups) and AIR 24 (for Commands), Paper Catalogue Indexes (Red Volumes on the 1st floor, shelves, outside the main 1st Floor Reading Room). Also look to see if there are any Appendices covering the same time periods, or other adjacent references.

There are plenty of ORBs to look through, to see if you find any further references, etc. Start with the Unit and Station ORBs first, as that may also give you more information about the purpose of the flight etc.

Mark

Re: RAF Non-operational loss 21 March 1944
 

Mark -
Many thanks for those very useful links. I have already seen copies of some of the ORB pages from Hurn - indeed, I placed copies of some in my notes here: http://www.arjay1949.webspace.virgin...m/JP/JP137.pdf , which I linked to in my earlier post, but it will be interesting to see if there's any more.
Thank you for your suggestions and advice.

Re: RAF Non-operational loss 21 March 1944
 

Unfortunately, it does look as if the BBC simply made a request for 'further documentation' on the crash of JP137, rather than a specific FOI request for form 765 and /or 1669.
The AHB responded to the BBC request that there was 'no additional documentation available'.
A further disappointment came from the Bournemouth Coroners Office, saying that the appropriate civilian inquest papers could not be traced either, admitting to 'gaps' in the inquest records from around that time.

Now whether these comments are true, or merely official 'stonewalling' to avoid any hard work, when it's clearly only 'amateur' historians making the requests, I wouldn't know?.....

What is slightly more encouraging is the response to the local paper piece, asking for witnesses to an engine fire, seen before the aircraft crash.

We now have 6 independent reports (2 x 'first hand' and 4 x 'secondhand' ones) of an engine fire before the aircraft crash. Most from those who had heard the approaching aircraft, clearly in distress, and looking out to see what was happening....

So, we have an aircraft in the air for only 3 minutes (according to the AM1180 card) ...a full fuel load ...reports of a wing 'dropping' some 2 minutes into the flight (again from the AM1180 card) .....a call to the Winton (local ) fire brigade, from the airfield, before the crash ..... 6 reports of an engine on fire..... the AM1180 reports of the rudder overspill problem (which the A &AEE 1943 reports that Mark refers to in post #25, indicate was a pretty serious fault).......

How can they still 'blame the pilot' ??? ......

I wonder if these new 'engine fire' reports are likely to help persuade the RAF to amend their records..... if they are true ( and I can see no reason why not?), surely there would have been nothing Sgt. Evans could have done to save that aircraft......

Re: RAF Non-operational loss 21 March 1944
 

I'm attaching a copy of the reverse of the AM1180 accident record card for JP 137, in the hope that someone can explain abbreviations I have highlighted.

I'm guessing that the highlighted section of the Additional Evidence section reads :

'C of I' (Court of Inquiry?) followed by what looks like a mathematical division sign, and then a '%' sign. Both before the words 'mechanical failure'.

Any idea what they might refer to??

Re: RAF Non-operational loss 21 March 1944
 

Arjay
The boxes above "Acc Code No." are numbered 1 to 7; +9 and an additional box marked "Fire".

The Royal Air Force had a Statistical Branch and my research of earlier WW2 Accident Cards (different format to these later WW2 Accident Cards) indicate that these Cause Groupings (or Accident Codes) noted on Accident Cards, were used in the compilation of RAF Flying Accident Statistics.

You will note that the "Fire" box is marked with a heavy cross (the same as "OPL" [Operational] and the "Night" boxes). Therefore, according to this they are placing the primary cause of the Accident as an aircraft fire, during the "O" [Take Off] "Stage".
(Other Stages were:- M = Miscellaneous; T = Taxying; F = In Flight; L = Landing etc.)

Regarding the other words you have highlighed, "C of I:- e/o [Engineering Officer or Engineer's title/rank] "Mechanical failure".

Mark

Re: RAF Non-operational loss 21 March 1944
 

New information received suggests that JP137 may in fact have been assigned to 624 Squadron.

Letter received from an ex 624 Squadron member, recalling the reported loss of JP137 as losing one of 'ours' ... and remembering the pilot's name as Evans... Not sure if there's anyway of checking that out further?...

There is a website for 624 squadron, but the forum registration charge of £10 seems a bit high, for just a tentative enquiry.....

Re: RAF Non-operational loss 21 March 1944
 

Hello Arjay

Your latest post, has made me look at the accident and aircraft paperwork relating to this aircraft and crash again. The ORB states:-

"Halifax II. JP.137 in transit from Hurn to M.A.A.F. crashed immediately after take-off" ...

Under "Station or Contractor" the Aircraft Card also confirms this Halifax was with 3 OADU prior to the crash, but was with the "MAAF" (Mediterranean Allied Air Force) on the date of the crash.

I'm afraid that the Mediterranean RAF Theatre of operations is not my main interest and I feel that someone else with more knowledge of that theatre of operations and Squadrons will be able to help.

One final point about a fire, official documents at TNA, Kew, indicate that the Halifax also had a problem with leaking fuel pipe unions.

Glad to see that you are following up all the lines of research diligently!!

Mark

Re: RAF Non-operational loss 21 March 1944
 

Further to my post about the Halifax being with the MAAF on the day of the crash. The files of the MAAF, TNA, Kew, AIR 51 gives the following:-

Many of the records of the Allied Command were deposited, after microfilming, with the United States' Department of the Army. The records of Headquarters Mediterranean Allied Air Force (MAAF) were originally microfilmed by the MAAF Historical Section but inspection of these films by the Allied Forces Records Administration (AFRA) resulted in a decision to re-film the records to the technical standards prescribed by a Combined Chiefs of Staff's directive. Both sets of film eventually came into the hands of the Ministry of Defence, Air Department who were then able to make a direct comparison and, having established that there was complete duplication between them, they elected to destroy the AFRA microfilm in February 1973.

The joint Allied air command was established on 17 February 1943 under the name "Mediterranean Air Command", but was re-named "Mediterranean Allied Air Forces" with effect from 10 December 1943. Mediterranean Allied Air Forces was dissolved into its constituent parts: US Army Air Forces, Mediterranean Theatre of Operations and Royal Air Force, Mediterranean and Middle East on 31 July 1945.

A comment about the above, rather than destroy the so called "duplication" film set (of the MAAF files), they could have offered the set of filmed records to other Archives, Universities, or provincial main Libraries in the UK.