Re: KG200 Greece/Rhodes/Crete 1944-45
 

BTW - do you have any idea with regards to the unit of the Bf 109?

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: KG200 Greece/Rhodes/Crete 1944-45
 

Hi Andreas & Byron

My understanding of the 1 June 1944 action is that the four Arado crews you mention each claimed a Beaufighter shot down, not that they were shot down!!

However, a Beaufighter did claim an Ar196 so possibly one of the four was forced to ditch!

Great stuff!

Brian

Re: KG200 Greece/Rhodes/Crete 1944-45
 

Hi, Brian

I read it the following way:

During this combat 1 Messerschmitt Bf 109 and 3 Arado 196 was shot down and 1 Arado Ar 196 was damaged.

If it was the other way around it would in my opinion read (in German):

Bei den Gefechten wurden durch 1 Me 109 und 3 Ar 196 4 Beaufighter abgeschossen

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: KG200 Greece/Rhodes/Crete 1944-45
 

Hi Andreas

I believe Byron has it wrong!

Over to you, Byron

Cheers
Brian

Re: KG200 Greece/Rhodes/Crete 1944-45
 

Both are right , 4 Ar196 hv been lost or at least 2 100 % nd 2 with soft damages but they managed , with some of their friends to shot down 4 Beaufighers

Byron what about the 8 crews safe ?? No NVM exist, so I wonder if...


Rémi

Re: KG200 Greece/Rhodes/Crete 1944-45
 

Dear friends,

My saurces about the big strike of 01.06.44 are:

1) the german wardiary of 31. Bordflakabteilung
2) the book "Alamein to the Alps 454 squadron, RAAF 1941-1945" by Marc Lax

From both saurces i get the inpression that the allies`casualties were caused by antiaircraft fires of the german ships and not by any Arados. There was only one los believed shot down by escorting Me 109 s, (warrand officer George Liels with his navigator flying officer Ed Quinlan, wireles operator Max Schultz and flying officer Max Short).

There is no indication about the fate of the 8 german airmen. Attached a page of the book about the los of the Arados.

regards
byron

Re: KG200 Greece/Rhodes/Crete 1944-45
 

Hi.

Rémi - what is your source for the Arados that were damaged or lost?

There seem to be no reason for them whatsoever to be 'missing' from the records.

My best bet is that they were named something else than 4./126, but I will also recheck the page layout for the loss lists of this unit in case I have a page missing in my collectuon.

As of now we have only secondary sources to these losses?

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: KG200 Greece/Rhodes/Crete 1944-45
 

Probably all these guys were un or slightly wounded , I traced Buss/Busse nd Böckling/Böcking still in action on 17.June 44 , but with different pilots,
Hässler was sligthly wounded in sept. 44

Rémi

Re: KG200 Greece/Rhodes/Crete 1944-45
 

Hi,

Remi ist right about the two of them

17.06.44 beim Schiffsgeleit von „GK 91“, „Aspassia Pi 1090“, „Ioannis Kutifaris Sam.19“, „Maria Vol.30“ und einem unbesetzten Motorsegler auf der Reise von Chania nach Piräus, bei der Kamilli-Bucht,
Ar 196 A5 (D1+AN, W.Nr. 623010) 100% und Ar 196 A5 (D1+FN, W.Nr. 100505) 100% von 5 (227 Sqn) Beaufightern und 4 Blenheims abgeschossen; Besatzungen von den Schiffen ohne Ausfälle aufgenommen.
FF. Uffz. Paduch, Ar 196 A5 (D1+AN, W.Nr. 623010) 100% m. BO. Ltn. Böckling,
FF. Ogfr. Schramm, Ar 196 A5 (D1+FN, W.Nr. 100505) 100% m. BO. Uffz. Busse, im gleichen Geleit
17.06.44 wie oben beschrieben. Besatzung leicht verwundet
byron

Re: KG200 Greece/Rhodes/Crete 1944-45
 

Hi.

Have checked the records again - the summary losses for 4./126 can appear in two places:

1. On the sheets marked with the 4./126
2. On the sheets marked with Aufkl.Gr. 126 - ohne Angabe der Staffel.

I have found that the last sheet for Aufkl.Gr. 126 - ohne Angabe der Staffel this sheet is filled, with the last entries being 6.3.44 and 17.11.1944 - a very long leap in time indeed.

This is not uncommon, but there is also quite common that a record following such a long timespan might be inbetween, but it is usually then marked in the margin where it should have been registered.

So - still no primary records on this one.

Regards,
Andreas B