Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

OK

I read it in Russian, series of articles in the "History of Aviation" magazine, so pages are different. About "bent at the roots" - it maybe depend from how strong the plane's nose touched the ground, for example. Or really it was wheels up landing. I'll try to find a technical description (result of engineer inspection or something like it). In all cases, it isn't desicive part of story.

OK. I'll ask the friends, maybe somebody saw it

Regards,
Andrey

Unteroffizier Herbert Meissler
 

Hi guys

The Life magazine issue of 29 November 1943 that can be viewed online through Google has a page devoted to this incident. There is a photograph included that once again shows Kaptain Pavel Tarasov (24 victories) being congratulated by General-Mayor Eugene Savitsky and in the background the aircraft in question with the damaged propeller blades alluded to previously.

http://img111.imagevenue.com/loc438/..._122_438lo.jpg

In addition, there is an excerpt from the Dragon on Bird Wings book on the 812 IAP, VVS at http://stonebooks.com/archives/061105.shtml which describes the Russian version of events quite nicely. Reading the excerpt one can deduce how both accounts came to be: Meissler was attempting to regain German-held territory following technical trouble with his machine when the Russian pilots happened upon him and were able to force him down. What is odd is that there is no mention at all of the German fighter being hit in the engine by 20-mm cannon fire as per the interrogation report in this account. Perhaps the only way to establish with certainty if the aircraft was damaged in the engine by enemy fire would be to obtain the captured enemy aircraft technical report if such was compiled and is available.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Does the photo show the actual dogfight? Or is it a staged battle?

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Andrey,

I wonder if the documents of reconnaissance sections of different VAs were reopened again recently?

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello, Nikita!

see PM

Andrey

Unteroffizier Herbert Meissler
 

Hello Rob

I am not really certain but I believe that it is a staged photograph possibly taken during the propaganda re-enactment of this event. In the photograph there is a trail of smoke pouring out of the German fighter and by most accounts excepting the interrogation report Bf 109 G-4 "White 2" (W.Nr. 14 997) did not receive any substantial damage from enemy fire but was forced down through warning shots. Here is another photograph that I came across that clearly shows the damage inflicted to the propeller blades during the emergency landing.

http://img298.imagevenue.com/loc72/t...r_122_72lo.jpg

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hi Andrey

About the IV volumn of JG52, I guess we are expecting the 13./JG52 and 15./JG52 addition, I don't know, but suspect not, at the moment Bernd is working on a book about his favourite pilot Gerhard Barkhorn, he knew im quite well and has hundreds of colour photo's, but it will also have conected information about other pilots. Barkhorn's inheritor was robed of his medals, a collector viewed them and asked if he could take them into the light outside to get a better look at them and did a runner, the police just are not interested!

I will ask about the IV volumn, I do know that he has investigated the foreign staffels as much as the regular.

Regards

Johannes

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Thank you, Johannes!

Barkhorn is interesting too, but it is a pity that the 4.volume will not appear in the nearest future

Regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello, friends!

Has looked at some documents in TsAMO in connection with Maissler’s case on 28 May 1943. First of all – operative reports of the whole command chain (4.Air.Army --> 3.IAK --> 265.IAD --> 812.IAP)

4.Air Army: 773 sorties (incl. 568 fighters) … in 45 dogfights shot down 54 a/c (incl. 20 Bf109) [yes, heavy overclaiming. According to GQM, we can counted 7 100% losses and 5 damaged 25%-45% due to ALL reasons. But it seems list is incomplete. For example, according to KTB StG2, 1 her Ju87 was lost and 2 Ju87 forced landed but in GQM one of forced landed Ju87 is absent] … Own losses: in dogfights – 3, Flak – 2, FTR – 20 (probably lost in dogfights mostly); damaged in dogfights and crashed on landing – 2; forced landing due to combat damages – 7 (German claims – 43 by fighter, 1 by Ju87 and 2 by Flak).
… Units involved: … 3.IAK: … 1 Bf109 was “taken into the ring” by the group of Yak-1 fighters and forced to land off Maysky, south of Slavyanskaya.

3.IAK: the case is omitted at all (probably due to error)

265.IAD: … 812.IAP not participated as a regiment, but 3 pilots (Tarasov, Kalugin, Tumanov) worked with 291.IAP. 291.IAP (3 own pilots and 3 pilots from 812.IAP) on 07:25-07:35 (06:30-06:35 German Summer Time) were in fight with 40 Ju87 and 6 Bf109 in the area of Kievskaya, H=1000 m. Claims: Churikov (291.IAP) – 1 Ju87; Tarasov – 1 Ju87 and 1 Bf109; Kalugin – 1 Ju87 and 1 Bf109; Tumanov – 1 Bf109. During returning flight Tarasov met 1 Bf109, made an attack and shot him. Bf109 made a belly landing [yes, not on wheel] off Troitskaya [this is a same area as mentioned above]. Pilot (”Miller”) was taken into captivity and delivered to the Stab of 265.IAD [An addition written by pencil: “[to] 4.Air Army”]

278.IAD (2nd Division of 3.IAK): nothing about the case in question.

812.IAP: I took it’s war diary, but there no entries between 10 May and 1 September for unknown reason. I have found out it too late to take other 812.IAP’s document. Hope to check it in future.

I took two large folders with 4.Air Army engineer’s papers but found nothing about examination of Meissler’s Bf109. Many engineer’s folders remains unstudied and it seems too much time needed to find the examination report. I’m not ready to spend more time for so “local” question but I hope the document will be found casually during researches.

So Meissler’s case looks like:
He took off from Taman airfield on 06:30 (according his words; it isn’t clear whether the Time converted to Moscow Time or not) with other 11 III./JG52 pilots with the task to escort the large group of Ju87 (60-70, according to his words). According to KTB of StG2, it’s Stukas (maybe with attached units) made 423 sorties between 05:45 and 18:10 and met “Sehr starke Jagd- und Flakabwehr” (very strong fighter’s defense and AA defense). It seems German forces divided on two groups for two targets (because Yaks were in fights with 40 Ju87 and 6 Bf109, according to their estimate). [At last moment in TsAMO I found minute-by-minute Lufwaffe aircrafts moving list according to AA department of 4.Air Army for the end of May, incl. 28.5 (radar and observers data). During the next visit I’ll examine it. It maybe useful for the reconstruction]
Then Meissler’s Bf109 engine failed temporary (due to shell or debris or bullet hit, or simply due to the technical reason – in dependence of when he said a truth), for unknown reason he has flown deeper into the enemy’s territory (the Ju87 targets were very close to frontline) and then his Bf109 was damaged (again or for the first time) by Tarasov and made a belly landing. The sole thing seems impossible: that Maissler “did not even see an enemy aircraft before his belly-landing”, as he said in 70ties.
By the way, GQM list claimed Meissler as lost in dogfight :)

Are any German pilot’s memories mention the day of 28 May 1943?

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Very nice work, Andrey!

With regards to the 'missing' Ju 87, the explanation could be that the damage to the airframe was considered to be less than 10%, in which case a loss record would not be filed.

It is also interesting to note that some parts of the unit records are missing (or displaced), it just underlines the necessity to be very accurate when one is working on these claims vs losses cases, as vital records may not be available for the exact dates of interest.

Regards,
Andreas B