Re: "Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr
 

thanks Richard for the fascinating list of titles, at least two of which I hope to seek out. Schabel's " Die Illusion der Wunderwaffen " looks like it should be required reading for a certain category of Luftwaffe enthusiast; " one cannot explain the evolution of technology simply by looking at the technology.."

Re: "Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr
 

[quote=Richard T. Eger;174941You don't remember "Red Tails"??? Bad case of amnesia here all around.
Regards,
Richard[/QUOTE]

Don't think "Red Tails" got a cinema release over here. Can't remember what you haven't seen.

Re: "Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr
 

Dear Paul, FalkeEins, and Nick,

Paul, you win for being the first to identify the movie as "Command Decision". I remembered it from a long time ago and recently purchased a copy. It was taken from a stage play and definitely had that feel to it in the movie. The movie came out in 1948. Early television drama was shown live from a studio stage and generally had that drawroom feel to it, as did this movie. William Wister Haines, who wrote the book in 1947, juxtapositioned Me 262 production into 1943 when much aircraft production was still centralized. To this, he added the real issue of daylight bombing lacking long range fighter escort and the fact that actual missions in this time frame without protection ended in unacceptable bomber losses. The Me 262, alias the Focke-Schmidt 1, was viewed as a major threat and thus a series of 3 missions to wipe out its production was laid on. Both the first mission to Posenleben and the second mission to Schweinhafen, done back to back, resulted in tremendous losses. To make matters worse, the bombers hit the wrong target and missed Schweinhafen, requiring a repeat run the next day. Enter the big brass fearful of how badly the huge losses would be received back home, with a nosey reporter added in to rub salt into the wound. The third mission, to Fendelhorst, needed to completely wipe out jet production, lay in jeopardy.

FalkeEins, I can assure you that Schabel's book is a must have. As I recall, he discusses the dichotomy of needing KZ labor for production and the stated goal of the final solution to eliminate Jews from Europe.

Nick, you didn't miss much. If you really get curious, you can probably buy it on DVD. It contained some of the poorest writing and hammiest acting I've ever seen.

Getting back to the movie, it was probably instrumental in my desire to know more about Me 262 production. As Haines presented it, it was a fascinating history. I wanted to know more. Haines played with history to dramatic effect, but the real history is just as fascinating, if not more so.

Regards,
Richard

Re: "Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr
 

Where does it stand on the "Flyboys" scale? I bought the dvd of that secondhand for £2 ($3) — way more than it was worth, as it turned out!

Re: "Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr
 

Nazis, can't even add 1+1 to arrive at 2. No surprises there at least. Plus ca change, ca change jamais.

All the best

Andreas

Re: "Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr
 

This thread is a hoot. And while we're all reminiscing about barf-inducing "historical" movies, who can forget the dreadful "Pearl Harbor" where Ben Affleck singlehandedly won the Battle of Britain, shot down numerous Japanese aircraft at Pearl Harbor and then was one of the Doolittle raiders. About the only thing they left out was Affleck being the top pilot of the Flying Tigers. They probably edited that part out. It's in the "director's cut" no doubt. The Axis forces never stood a chance.

Sorry, I've drifted mightily from the Me 262/jets subject of this thread, but if there had been a sequel...........

Re: "Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr
 

Dear Nick,

Actually, I liked "Flyboys", especially Jean Reno as the father figure. It was a fun yarn and one had to just view it in that light to enjoy it. It was reminiscent of the between wars aerial combat films. On the other hand, "Red Tails" was supposedly trying to tell the story of the "Tuskegee Airmen", but painted them as caricatures. Admittedly, "Flyboys" was a take on the Lafayette Escadrille, but it never really took itself as an attempt to tell the story accurately, nor did I view it that way, while "Red Tails" tried to give the impression that this was truly a tribute to the 332nd FS and made itself a laughing stock instead.

Regards,
Richard

Re: "Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr
 

Thank you, Richard.

I thought that the stage play approach was more succesful than many of the more expansive Holywood productions. Even "Run Silent, Run Deep", a similar film with Gable also playing the main character, suffers from some very dubious imitation of military equipment. It was interesting to see the main character fly off at the end of "Command Decision" to direct the bombing of Japan, a clear reference to LeMay, although the history is modified again.

While I was writing this, I realised I actually have a serious question about the Me 262, although I am not sure I should spoil the thread's frivolity :) I've sent you a PM about it.

Regards,

Paul Thompson

Re: "Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr
 

As an editor at a publishing company, we get to choose the book title, we get to choose the chapter titles and our authors know it. Without trying to disparage the decisions of other publishers, we have learned that certain titles produce a certain reaction in the majority of readers. We just know that from experience.

But, I've noticed a certain desire to take certain subjects and give them titles that just make my eyes roll. Did these airmen defeat Nazi Germany? No, of course not. A combined force of arms and other men were there. That kind of hyperbole is just selling something that isn't true. But I hope this doesn't become a trend. No, I don't want a dry title that sounds like a textbook, but think about what you're marketing. Were these airmen any more courageous or necessary in defeating the Nazis than those who did not face the jets? As the British say: "It's just like what it says on the tin." That is what I want. Accuracy in titles. I think that's reasonable.


Best,
Ed

Re: "Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr
 

Dear Ed,

If you want to sell a book based on a titillating title, then you are aiming toward the less knowledgeable while turning off the serious researcher at the same time. That's been the gist of what this thread has been about. The sample list of books I presented earlier are for the serious researcher, someone looking to add to their understanding of the whole history from various aspects and feeling that they can pretty much rely on what is presented as honest attempts at presenting the facts. The impression given by the book under discussion is just the opposite, thus the reaction of our research brethren. So, the publisher can decide between a tabloid slant or a serious slant. Of course, if the author has pre-ordained the direction by the book's contents, then the publisher can follow as his conscience dictates.

Frankly, if I were to write a book, I'd want to know darn well that the publisher would treat my efforts with respect. It would certainly be a decision factor in choosing a publisher in the first place.

Regards,
Richard