Re: 3./JG 77 machine: or "A Little Brown Job to start 2014"!
 

It's not about disbelieving anyone. Nothing gets solved unless we all see the actual documents. We have respected researchers/authors on both sides of the discussion so it's only fair we have solid proof before we start labelling any units as using 'Braun'. :)

Re: 3./JG 77 machine: or "A Little Brown Job to start 2014"!
 

Hi Clint,

Taken from the original loss reports:
- 05.07.43, 9./J.G. 51, braune 7
- 07.07.43, 12./J.G. 51, braune 13
- 10.07.43, 12./J.G. 51, braune 2, braune 4
- 13.07.43, 12./J.G. 51, braune 3
- 07.08.43, 3./J.G. 51, braune 5

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com

Re: 3./JG 77 machine: or "A Little Brown Job to start 2014"!
 

I anderstand your point of view Clint and I think it's better and safer to follow that procedure.

Once again:

It will be good to get RAF reports too (For example ... That EGr. 210 Braune 3 shot down over GB!)

and

those famous CAR nobody wants to share!!!!

Re: 3./JG 77 machine: or "A Little Brown Job to start 2014"!
 

Hi,

And from Crashed Enemy Aircraft Reports:
FW 190 D-9 WNr. 210 086 rectangle + (rectangle orange brown) [7./J.G. 26]
FW 190 D-9 WNr. 500 647 4 + - (brown)

And those were all I could see in NA AIR 40/45.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.facebook.com/airwarpublications

Re: 3./JG 77 machine: or "A Little Brown Job to start 2014"!
 

Thank you Andrew,

as explained by Clint, we want to see extract of the said original reports. The "fight" has been too rough those last days ...

Re: 3./JG 77 machine: or "A Little Brown Job to start 2014"!
 

Andrew, thankyou for your input. If possible it would be ideal to see the report extracts. This will give us pretty much irrefutable visible proof that a primary period document recorded the use of 'Braun'.

The A.I.1(g) Report for Hintze's 3./ErproGr210 6+ down at Pluckley 29 October 1940.: No identification markings traced.

Bad crash, just a crater...

I think that's the only one that came down on land from 3./ErproGr210? If not let me know and I'll check.

Also with regards to the RAF (g, k) reports. Although interesting to note that they mention the use of Brown. I think for our list these reports are susceptible to possible human error. Well, what I mean is, it could be argued that the inspecting officer got it wrong for whatever reason. At least with the Luftwaffe sourced documents we have the colour recorded on an official document using the correct term as passed on by the unit the actual aircraft originated from.

Re: 3./JG 77 machine: or "A Little Brown Job to start 2014"!
 

So now we have:

• 6./JG26 (loss: Aug 43) (Jim P)
• 9./JG54 (loss: July 43) (Jim P)
• 9./JG2 (loss: June 41) (Jim P)
• 3./JG51 (loss: ?) (Franck)
• 15./JG51 (loss: Jan ??) (Franck)

Re: 3./JG 77 machine: or "A Little Brown Job to start 2014"!
 

Lt. Horst Marx down following the Croydon raid in the early evening of 15th August 1940. Marx baled out, so it is probable that his went in at great force. If I recall correctly, the RAF Intelligence bod wasn't even able to make out the fact that a bomb rack was fitted to the aircraft...

Re: 3./JG 77 machine: or "A Little Brown Job to start 2014"!
 

Thanks John, sounds like the crash at Frant described as being "four miles south of Tunbridge Wells. No identification markings decipherable." Which is about where Frant is in relation to TW.

Re: 3./JG 77 machine: or "A Little Brown Job to start 2014"!
 

Clint,
Yep, Marx's 109 went in at Frant.