Originally Posted by mayfair35 (Post 44250)

In addition, because of this forum, I have looked more carefully at my encounter reports and my Form 5. They are often incorrect. My probable victory on 24 June was over Jugoslavia but Intelligence wrote it up that I was over Ploesti and in a flight of four! I never got to Roumania and was all alone when I encountered the 109s. I hope the info in my Form 5 (flight record) is more accurate. I know how the problems occurred. At mission debriefing, they took notes which sometimes were not transcribed for a week or more. Since we never saw the reports, we did not have an opportunity to correct them. I wished now that I had insisted on seeing them.http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/images/icons/icon9.gif

Originally Posted by mayfair35 (Post 44195)

A
TO NICKM: I reread the article about Bob Goebel's victory over Ploesti on July 3, 1944 and compared it with his book. They track quite closely. FYI, Bob was credited with Me-109s on May 29, June 23, and a probable on July 2 in 1944. On May 27 he was credited with a Me-110.
July 3rd was his 42nd mission. Approaching Ploesti he spotted a gaggle of 15 Me-109s @ an estimated 26,000 feet. He states that two of them were close at his 1:00 o'clock. He attacked and tacked on the tail of a Me-109 that went vertical into what he terms a "kind of Cuban 8" and Bob followed him. He believes the Me-109 was using negative G evasive maneuvers. Bob finally got in a good burst on the fuselage and right wing following which the Me pilot bailed out. Bob then switched off his guns and using the camera, took a picture of the Me pilot in his parachute.
Hartmann tells the story in much the same way, although he states he had the low fuel light come on when he bailed out. He did not think much of Bob's shooting! Bob's film showed the hits and the pilot in his chute. As Bob flew by him, he raised his hand in a type of salute and took off. Hartmann tells of the pilot raising his hand but then says, "He registered an ugly face and then the American was gone." I wonder what "face" he could see with Bob's oxygen mask in place as we did not take our masks off from the beginning of the flight until home - our microphone was in the mask. The article states that Hartmann was shot down at least 14 times and although he claimed several P-51s, he is credited with 2 P-51 victories. I have read that he overclaimed, but it distresses me to see people questioning some victories after the pilot is dead. That is what happened with the Yamamoto shoot down also.
I believe Hartmann shot down a 325th P-51 as I recall reading a story about him in which he describes a P-51 blowing up and seeing yellow and black checkertail pieces all over the sky. Over Budapest, I was leading an element when the flight leader's wingman accidentally chopped off his tail. I could not believe how much of the sky was covered by the black and yellow checkertails so I believe the victory claimed by Hartmann was undoubtedly correct. If I had the date of this victory, I could check the name of our pilot.

Cordially, Art Fiedler