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-   -   To Sudek 13 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=9685)

Erik Mombeeck 12th August 2007 22:25

Re: To Sudek 13
 
Hello to all,
For a several days I have been following this interesting thread on the situation regarding copyright and Sudek13 who seems to have become one of the favourite subjects on this board. I don’t have enough knowledge regarding the copyright aspect to be able to add anything significant in this matter, but concerning Sudek, (unfortunately not the famous Czechoslovakian photograph Joseph Sudek, but “our” Sudek-Cresus-13), I would like too to post a few lines.
Like most of you, I am looking for original documents and photos – in fact for over 20 years. This has led me to cross paths with of a lot of collectors. They can be roughly put in two categories: the ones who gain their pleasure just sitting on their collections, even if they have no time to assess or understand what they have or look at them. They often don’t want to share, they just want to “have”, and if possible to be the one who has the best collection. This is a depressing situation because the doors are closed (except for their own interest), and the future of this study is in a kind of black hole, - it is difficult to progress and expand our knowledge and understanding.
Other collectors have other views: they can be proud of what they have, but find great pleasure sharing, to see what one can do, what one can find with the collected documents. What is behind the photo, the human context…? This is of course much more constructive and reveals a real interest in history.
I can not say of course in which category Sudek13 is. Maybe somewhere between both? Indeed, I should mention that several photos from his huge collection appeared in publications with a mention like “Archive of the modern war conflicts”. The fact that the word “Archive” and not “Collection” is used denotes a certain will to do something else than just possess. Also, the fact that some authors appear to have access to his documents proves that Sudek13 is not a completely closed book. But now, we should also wonder about the role played by those who have access to publish his material. Shouldn’t we fear that this role is maybe not very positive? To Sudek13 himself but also to colleagues and researchers? Knowing that they have a quasi-exclusive access to a very large and fantastic source, wouldn’t they do all possible to keep for their own this access? Even to blind the owner of the collection?
Of course, if this archive was opened to all enthusiasts, that would give Sudek-13 a terrible problem to process all the requests. But it is possible to find a solution to every problem when one has a good will.
Honestly, at the moment, I would not like to be in Sudek’s shoes. His first intentions were maybe not to cut the historians and enthusiasts from thousands of interesting documents, but his lack of communication and the manipulation he maybe suffers led him to this existing situation. A situation which seems to apply to so many rich people and to the well known expression “Money does not buy happiness”.
We know now that he is rich, that his collection is probably one of the largest we can dream of. But it is time that Sudek13 reveals a bit about himself and his intentions. I am sure that he and his well and bad-intentioned collaborators are also following this thread. He has certainly nothing to lose to show (to us and to himself) that he is a man with courage, respect, interests, knowledge, plans… qualities that money can not completely hide.
Best regards
Erik Mombeeck

LuckySicuro 26th October 2007 06:52

Re: To Sudek 13
 
Dear Sir I am Dr. Sicuro President of Sicuro Publishing I see that misinterpretation and lack of " Basic Law " knowledge .
Few Clear Words : I never was contact by anyone in this Arena .. so please ..
Our Copyright refer not " ONE Public Domain publication ' But indeed " Bundle Public Domain Publication " .. Because Sirs you sound.. well informed .. you cam explain to this community what this copyright law is about .. I strongly advise you or any member to this community to engage legal advise on this matter.....Or contact a Publish company that can explain in details ... this issues I have enjoy to read ... my Best Regards to everyone ... Fortunato Sicuro .... Sicuropublishing.com

LuckySicuro 26th October 2007 06:56

Re: To Sudek 13
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harrison987 (Post 48329)
This publishing company is full of shyte. I have already spoken with them, and Sicuro has NO COPYRIGHT on those items. The Canadian Intellectual Property Rights dept., hands out copyright to ANYONE. You do not have to provide proof of anything. You register online, tell them you are the owner, and voilà, you get a copyright certificate in the mail. They do not investigate the claims, and WILL NOT back you up in court.

I know this, because 1) I am Canadian, 2) I have dealt with copyright for maaannnnyyy years, and 3) I own about 80 original manuals, and wanted to obtain the copyrights WAAYYYYY before Sicuro did.

WW2 copyright does not exist anywhere I know of, not because it is WW2, but because of the date. If I owned a aircraft company and printed aircraft manuals in 1940...copyright would be lost if:

1) original author died (company went out of business) and 10 years go by from his death

2) 50 years after original publication, no copyright was re-registered.

3) company lost all records proving they were the original publisher.

However, I can RETAIN the copyright if I re-register, have proof of legal copyright, and are WITHIN the legal tmeframes/dates.

Sicuro is under the impression that IF NO ONE claims copyright after the author's death, then the first person who does becomes the legal copyright holder. That is 100% FALSE. Copyright automatically would have gone to EADS when they took over Messerschmitt AG/Daimler-Benz., and automatically lost when 50 yesrs went by from the publication date.

If they did not register the copyright 50 years after the original publication (75 in Canada, I believe), then even THEY cannot claim anything. Once in FREE DOMAIN, it remains in FREE DOMAIN for life. This is recognized worldwide, even in Germany.

I have a letter from the legal department at EADS, stating they even THEY cannot prove they are the legal successor, as the company changed so many times, and there is NO documents showing they are the successor (even though it is pretty obvious). It would never hold up in court. EADS can offer a "non-exclusive" license to print the work (logs/branding, etc.), but Sicuro's copyright claim is BS.

Copyright law, though slightly different in every country, is GENERALLY the same. Once an item is in free domain, it remains in FREE DOMAIN.

To date, the family of William Shakespeare gets NO ROYALTIES from plays published...no copyright. That is why you see his plays published by 100's of different publishers.

Both Sicuro and sudek13 cannot claim copyright on anything, and would lose any court battle, as they would not be able to prove they are the LEGAL SUCCESSOR of the photos or documents

100% fact.

;)

mike

Dear Sir I am Dr. Sicuro President of Sicuro Publishing I see that misinterpretation and lack of " Basic Law " knowledge .
Few Clear Words : I never was contact by anyone in this Arena .. so please .. ... I suggest to avoid this.........

Our Copyright refer not " ONE Public Domain publication ' But indeed " Bundle Public Domain Publication " .. Because Sir you sound.. well informed .. you cam explain to this community what this copyright legal act is about .. I strongly advise you or any member to this community to engage legal advise on this matter.....Or contact a Publish company that can explain in details ... this issues .... I have enjoy to read about ... my Best Regards to everyone ... Fortunato Sicuro .... Sicuropublishing.com

bavgan 26th October 2007 12:34

Re: To Sudek 13
 
Dr. Sicuro,

As far as I see from the Canadian copyright links, you own the copyrights of several Luftwaffe aircraft manuals (especially the Ersatzteil-Liste BF-109 E, F and G) and the Fw 190 blueprints.

Are you aware that the same manuals are also for sale at eBay in CD/DVD format. And, in addition to that, are you aware that the sellers of these CDs claim the copyrights of these manuals by a system called "VeRo", which is an "ultra-genious" copyright agreement of eBay itself? VeRo has nothing to do by law. Once you tell them that you have the copyrights of a book, they give it to you without questioning it! Ebay loves its users.

Back to the life out of eBay, as you have the copyrights, I strongly advise you to take all legal action and earn your best. Law is with you :)

Regards,

Batur


PS: I visit this forum only a few times a year. However, if you win the court, I would love to know that. An e-mail is welcome.

John Vasco 26th October 2007 19:38

Re: To Sudek 13
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckySicuro (Post 52743)
Dear Sir I am Dr. Sicuro President of Sicuro Publishing I see that misinterpretation and lack of " Basic Law " knowledge .
Few Clear Words : I never was contact by anyone in this Arena .. so please ..
Our Copyright refer not " ONE Public Domain publication ' But indeed " Bundle Public Domain Publication " .. Because Sirs you sound.. well informed .. you cam explain to this community what this copyright law is about .. I strongly advise you or any member to this community to engage legal advise on this matter.....Or contact a Publish company that can explain in details ... this issues I have enjoy to read ... my Best Regards to everyone ... Fortunato Sicuro .... Sicuropublishing.com

This guy's taking the piss. I love taking on piss-takers. What else have you got to say, Mr. Sicuro. Please tell me you have copyright over the words: 'Bombsights Over England', or 'Sting of the Luftwaffe'. Maybe you've copyrighted Vasco da Gama's name, and will sue me because of my surname. Man, I'm shitting myself.

John Vasco

LuckySicuro 26th October 2007 20:39

Re: To Sudek 13
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Vasco (Post 52779)
This guy's taking the piss. I love taking on piss-takers. What else have you got to say, Mr. Sicuro. Please tell me you have copyright over the words: 'Bombsights Over England', or 'Sting of the Luftwaffe'. Maybe you've copyrighted Vasco da Gama's name, and will sue me because of my surname. Man, I'm shitting myself.

John Vasco

MR Vasco
In you Country a Publisher company Call CopyZone has registed copyright about Spitfire Lancaster etc please see web site http://spitfirerestoration.com/ ... I do not want ad anything else .

We Claim the Copyright about OUR work.. That Came from The Original Manuals But it is NOT the ORIGINAL Manual.. It is Translate Or It was Modify From the Original Title is the same contents It is Not


As well other Company Very well know

Luftfahrt-Archiv Hafner
Udo Hafner
www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de

Has done the same Mr Hafner HAs ISBN Number Like we have done .. and we sell in Bookstore Like Mr. Hafner does...


Please give me the courtesy .. to look at .. the legal issue ... in deeply way

Mit freundlichen Grüssen / kind regards

F. Sicuro Dr. P. E. PhD



LuckySicuro 26th October 2007 21:04

Re: To Sudek 13
 
Mr Batur
The Only One on ebay that has the right to sell is ebay id:Bvah
This Ebay id is located in Germany and he is family relate with
Udo Hafner

Luftfahrt-Archiv Hafner www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de


Somebody else From NZ has created a lot of mess ...

It is Very Costly to go after someone for copyright issue Mainly because any company will be not able to recuperate legal fee and other expense so the most of ...... file a complain Via VERO and item is removed from Ebay.... likely someone re-list same or similar item and it will be removed again .. It like a game ..

Some one to make a buck .. dear to go against the law ....
He is a little guy that need the $ 15.00 USD to make the day ...
He has not economical resource ..... and a Legal Counselor for copyright matter cost $ 400.00 USD per Hour ..

I invite you to " Google " " Rolex Vs Ebay "

We Claim Copyright or what we have done .. Our Work...
... Our Work is a Modify Version of Original Manuals.. ...

.... We have ISBN number and OUR .." Manuals are in Bookstore " ...

... Because Title and Original Author is the same ... this do not imply .. that after 51 years It is the same ..

... For Publishing reason we are compel to register copyright . like any other Publisher company ..world wide and NOT Only in Canada

Please give us some credit.. We do know what we are doing...

Some One in this Arena has quote US without be aware what it was done in back stage ..

Anyway I like what you are doing .. It is evident no one is a Legal Counselor .. in this forum...

Mit freundlichen Grüssen / kind regards

F . Sicuro




Quote:

Originally Posted by bavgan (Post 52755)
Dr. Sicuro,

As far as I see from the Canadian copyright links, you own the copyrights of several Luftwaffe aircraft manuals (especially the Ersatzteil-Liste BF-109 E, F and G) and the Fw 190 blueprints.

Are you aware that the same manuals are also for sale at eBay in CD/DVD format. And, in addition to that, are you aware that the sellers of these CDs claim the copyrights of these manuals by a system called "VeRo", which is an "ultra-genious" copyright agreement of eBay itself? VeRo has nothing to do by law. Once you tell them that you have the copyrights of a book, they give it to you without questioning it! Ebay loves its users.

Back to the life out of eBay, as you have the copyrights, I strongly advise you to take all legal action and earn your best. Law is with you :)

Regards,

Batur


PS: I visit this forum only a few times a year. However, if you win the court, I would love to know that. An e-mail is welcome.


bavgan 26th October 2007 21:38

Re: To Sudek 13
 
Thanks for your reply Mr. Sicuro. I guess I know that "someone from NZ" who caused lots of trouble at eBay.

Have a good day,

Batur

John Vasco 26th October 2007 23:15

Re: To Sudek 13
 
Mr Sicuro,

What you say in reply to me says nothing. It is a load of bollocks.

"...We Claim the Copyright about OUR work.. That Came from The Original Manuals But it is NOT the ORIGINAL Manual.. It is Translate Or It was Modify From the Original Title is the same contents It is Not..." Yes, and some Polish prick did that to a joint work that I did with another researcher/author - lifted parts of our book, translated them into Polish, then back into poor English, and didn't even have the courtesy to contact me about it (I was the Publisher!) Of course it's not the original manual. The original manual was printed during the Third Reich years! Do you think I'm fuckin' stupid! If I (or any other author) quote from an official wartime document, we don't claim those sentences/paragraphs as our own copyright.

By this argument: "We Claim Copyright or what we have done .. Our Work... ... Our Work is a Modify Version of Original Manuals.. ..." I think I'll publish, let's see, 'Flieger, Ritter, Helden', or 'Mölders und seiner Männer', or how about 'Unsere Flieger über Polen'. I'll just write a single paragraph on the first page and claim complete copyright over the whole thing. Am I right? Cos that's what you're doing. But hang on, there are copies of those books still out there (I have a copy of all three of them for starters) and if others were to quote from them, could I then sue them for copyright violation? I don't think so.

I see through you. Why don't you just piss off and stop spamming this Forum.

LuckySicuro 27th October 2007 02:42

Re: To Sudek 13
 
I see Mr Vasco

Some One claim that Has talk with me and it is not true

You Insult me in Public in this Forum .. and I do not understand if you have understood or read our books .. Did you ???

You are not aware what all this issue is about You have NOT SEE and Read OUR BOOKS Did you ???

You claim that I or MY people Just Bull....t or what ever ...

And I have to say I am sorry .. ..


Mr Vasco You answer define yourself ... do you you agree .. Do not you ??

The Translation OF Reprint of German Manuals and Publication was made since 1950 in USA and Europe ..

AAF has done the first Reprint and Publication of ME-162

Anyway I do not have to explain .. You were Publisher or you say you have published .... Good so you know that You have copyright your work and Legally Deposit..

So you are aware about all the procedures.. Do not you ??

About What is Original and what has change from the Original ...
Pages or other is one other issue.. Pages Chapter and what ever is a LEGAL FORM with application and details that can not be discuss in this ARENA

I see that You Sir Vasco you are trying to make a point that is far away from the Gist of this copyright issue .

What we sell ARE NOT COPIES ....

About " Piss and other elegant expression .... " ube " ..... above and beyond ...

I can see where you can from and the " Intellectual level and rank you feel proud to belong to.... "


thank you for you comment

and

I apology .. if I have intrude ....

Because some one has claim that has spoken with us ( Nobody Did... ) .... and .. a lot of incorrect .. misinterpretation and ..... was written.. we felt that we should have take part of......

I realize now we were wrong ..... we apology ....

We accept to be the Bad Guys .... When some one can not defend himself or his own company.... and somebody else is ready to jump on with a lot of miss leading and untruthfulness ..... what we can do .. Nothing It is Correct Is it not ?...

You Mr Vasco are right I stop " to just piss you off and stop spamming this Forum "

I apology if I have bother you ... I was not in title to intrude in this community.. Was I ???

Have nice day

Mit freundlichen Grüssen / kind regards

F. Sicuro Dr. P. E. PhD


Quote:

Originally Posted by John Vasco (Post 52791)
Mr Sicuro,

What you say in reply to me says nothing. It is a load of bollocks.

"...We Claim the Copyright about OUR work.. That Came from The Original Manuals But it is NOT the ORIGINAL Manual.. It is Translate Or It was Modify From the Original Title is the same contents It is Not..." Yes, and some Polish prick did that to a joint work that I did with another researcher/author - lifted parts of our book, translated them into Polish, then back into poor English, and didn't even have the courtesy to contact me about it (I was the Publisher!) Of course it's not the original manual. The original manual was printed during the Third Reich years! Do you think I'm fuckin' stupid! If I (or any other author) quote from an official wartime document, we don't claim those sentences/paragraphs as our own copyright.

By this argument: "We Claim Copyright or what we have done .. Our Work... ... Our Work is a Modify Version of Original Manuals.. ..." I think I'll publish, let's see, 'Flieger, Ritter, Helden', or 'Mölders und seiner Männer', or how about 'Unsere Flieger über Polen'. I'll just write a single paragraph on the first page and claim complete copyright over the whole thing. Am I right? Cos that's what you're doing. But hang on, there are copies of those books still out there (I have a copy of all three of them for starters) and if others were to quote from them, could I then sue them for copyright violation? I don't think so.

I see through you. Why don't you just piss off and stop spamming this Forum.



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