Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Aircraft captured in Denmark were flown out, and all He 219 found here are accounted for!

Junker

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi.

Images from camera 2 has now been uploaded, maybe there are new details in between.

Please look at >>> www.danas-have.dk/He219.htm

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Kim,
I have added the link here:
http://www.gyges.dk/night_fighters_odds_and_ends.htm
for easy reference.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello all,

Somehow I had a faint 'deja vu' when we recently discussed the 3116 number and enclosed a detail of the NASM restauration process of Wnr. 290202... showing that same 3116.

This picture was kindly provided by Dave McDonald from New-Zealand who had a contact at the NASM and that was Tony, some postings above this one :)

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

3116 is a duraluminium material standard number. This Aluminium-Copper-Magnesium alloy was most commonly used sheet material in aircraft outer surface (it was better weather resistant than 3115, which was used earlier). This number was stamped in metal sheets to distinguish them from other alloys.

Matti

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Matti,

You are unbelievable! Can I send you the other 3461 numbers as well? :D
Thanks for sharing this conclusive info!

Have a nice weekend, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Here (link below) is pic of inner-end of left aileron. Dataplate has either long rotted away or been taken away. This and earlier report of "wires to instruments having been cut", suggest either - a) Divers already visited this wreck many years ago (corals have grown on where it was) or b) wreck dumped from trawler before entering port. Then this coming from totally different location in north-Sea, Skagerrac or Baltic. This latter suggestion maybe totally wrong, or witness saw yet other plane (that may still lie in sea nearby??) Just my two pennies.

http://www.danas-have.dk/images/HE21...0412%20181.JPG

My best bet whould be searching underside of wing and check if hatches or acess panels are there still, and look at them.

regards
ed

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi ed,
I can follow your argument - part of the way, but please consider what was salvaged was a major part of the fuselage and a wing complete with engine. Not an easy piece to handle on the deck of a fishing boat and then to dump back into a watery grave.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Ed,

The picture you are referring to, gives me reason to believe that the plate is still there and pointing towards the photographer. As with the plate on the inner left landing flap, it will only disclose the manufacturer and what part it is.

It's hard to stay patient, I can tell you but I am sure Kim and his team will look for identification details too to put our minds at rest :)

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

@SES - Ok. No prob, just speculating. On second set of photos one can see both wings were recovered, togeather with portions of fuselage underside and gunpack, and nosewheel. Previous photos and DK Radio TV news of the recovery had not shown other wing, but it makes recovery even more intersting towards an eventual rebuild. I do hope they have enough skilled workers for this, finance and housing etc.

@Marcel - Ok. I fully understand it takes time find out, and news to leak out to us, undoupedly they have many experts or knowledagble specialists to contact! But I do not assume all entusiasts know as much as many on this forum do (no offence meant). The number 3116 is probably one of the best known ´fail´ around in finding indentity (no offence meant), other beeing ´part numbers´or Gerat W.Nr. or even FL numbers.
From about 40 years experiance of examining WW2 aircraft wrecks, I fully see left aileron inner end plate is gone (some time back and coral grown where it was). Photo of right wing and aileron (links below) are not clear enough to see if plate is there still.

Yes, I fully know what is to be expected found on part plates at various times on LW airplanes, particularily Ju 88s (my favourite) but there were countless variations to them and not all known yet. After April 1943 it was (generally) only secret code for actual manufacturer (here lxx), type part number (219-320 in case of inner flap) and inspection stamp (and/or BAL / BA) acceptance date.

http://www.danas-have.dk/images/HE21...0412%20255.JPG
http://www.danas-have.dk/images/HE21...0412%20260.JPG

But yes, its major recovery and probably many are pondering.

Best regards
Ed

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

See attached picture of the restoration work on He-219th from today.

Please tell me where I should look for ID badges or other characters !!!

Then I will go to it right away and looking for the places and take photos.

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Kim,
Did you manage to have a look at the back of the Mutterkompass ?
Otherwise as said, the W.Nr might be on the back of a detachable pannl.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi SES.

Re: The Mutterkompass, they will look at it next week.

They have 2 pcs more at the museum, and the will look at them as well.

Please send me a pic of the specific detachable pannl, so i know where to look .

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Did you check underneath the seats and/or any armor panels?

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Kim,
Please read post 112 carefully.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

I make now a list and look for the things mentioned next week.

No.112 +134 +137+138+


Please type the image number if it is on camera 1 or 2

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Mr. Kim.

Recommented steder at søge (efter numre på u. andre indentiter) er : hvis rester af store bogstaver er under vingerne (code bogstaver). Kontrollér, at pladen for enden af højre vingespids-"prototyper" (sic). Kontrollér for skruet på paneler under vingerne, har numre. Rens forsigtigt snavset. Jeg forventer ikke der er numre i skrok (rumpf) omkring gevær. Muttercompass er en god mulighed.

Mine Dansk er forskellig...? Tried improve on small block of Babylon 9 online translation, sorry but it looks kind of funny (almost not written any Dansk for 40 years!) but it may be complete mistake.

Recommented places to look for numbers at are also: if remains of large code letters are under the wings. Check for plate at end of Right Wing aileron. Check for if the screwed on panels under the wings have painted number on inside. Clean carefully if dirty. I do not expect there are numbers in fuselage around the guns. Muttercompass is good possibility.

Best regards
Ed

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

I have no idea about the He219, but some German types also had the Werke Nummer stamped (just under 1cm) into the steel of undercarriage pick-up points or on the tops of the legs themselves.

It might just be worth a look?

That number is there someplace.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi,
This could bring us a little closer to the sub-type. The picture attached is of the ventral gun-tray. I can only see two guns and IMHO they are MG151/20. If this is correct it narrows down the possibilities.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Michaël,

Unfortunately it is not, early 1944 some He219's of the I./NJG 1 were stripped from some armour and guns in order to save weight and improve capabilities to intercept Mosquito's. That was only weeks before the I./NJG 1 got their first Rostock He219's...

The real conclusive distinction between the A-0 / A-2 / A-7 can be seen in attached document. Many Baugruppen were identical, in some area's each subtype had its own Baugruppe number. The tag on the inner landing flap (number identical for A-0, A-2 and A-7) has a number that identifies this part as the inner left landing flap of a He219, whereas the manufacturer code lxx points to a flap producing firm in Kiel, a clear indication that this wreck is a Rostock produced He219.

In short: if the wreckparts are cleaned gradually, one should look for 1) the complete Werkenummer but - as this is the proverbial jackpot - 2) the parts that were typical for the A-0, A-2 or A-7 (for instance the oil pressure system)

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Marcel,
You are a greater expert than me on this subject, but the type and number of guns (2 cm or 3 cm) is that not a pointer, or was there complete chaos where guns were replaced irrecspective of the sub-type? And AFAIK only A-5 to A-7 had Mk151 in the belly-pack.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

All He 219 used MG 151 in the belly pack (or had the capability to use up to four there). The use of Schräge Musik limited them to the two forward-mounted guns though.
3cm guns were an option but seldomly used, MK 103 most probably not used at all - too heavy.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Denniss,
I would be grateful if you could quote or even better post your source.
Attached is mine; copy from Schiffer - Luftwaffe Profile n°03 - Heinkel He 219 Uhu
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Oh no, not the old/outdate profile series .....
He 219 A-0 weapons manual clearly shows MG 151/20 in wing root as standard armament with four guns in the belly station as Rüstsatz (optional installation), Rüstsatz M1 was 4x MG 151/20, M2 was MK 108 and M3 was MK 103.
A-0 weapons manual, Beiheft 1 Schrägbewaffnung, clearly states the rear guns of the belly package had to be removed.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Let us try to stick to original manuals, archive materials and so on. As allready proven by Ron Fergusson with his research paper, all published books on this subject are filled with wrong captions and contradictions.

Junker

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi,
I will be more than happy to do that. So who has an original German document describing the various versions (sub-types) of the He 219?
The salvaged He 219 has no guns in the wing roots (most unusual, since they were the basic armament) and no SM (not so unusual since this was often removed at unit level) and AFAICT the picture shows the forward part of the ventral tray with the outboard/forward MK151/20.
BTW Kim has informed me, that they have not found any 2 cm ammo in the wreck, just ammo for the MG15.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

and all became quiet on the Western Front.
The two weapons manuals, which have been indirectly referred to, describes the weapons fit on the He 219A-0. Are we to assume that they were applicable to all versions of the He 219A ?
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

This may be possible although A-2 and A-7 had different assembly/part numbers for the forward-mounted weapons in the belly (but not the rear-mounted) and for Schräge Musik. (See the attachment by Marcel)

BTW the weapons manual is of 3/44 (data from 2/44) and the Beiheft is from 10/44 (data from 7/44)

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi,
Thanks, I have up-loaded both manuals here:
http://www.gyges.dk/night_fighters_odds_and_ends.htm
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Johannes Hager flew an A-0 variant on eve of 16/17 June 1944 where he claimed 3 bombers , two of them with the SM installation. of note reviewing the scan of his Abschusse report - 197 rounds of 2cm ammunition. the aircraft in question G9+LP was equipped with 6 2cm MG 151's and 2 2cm MG/FF in the SM installation.

interesting eh ?

E ~

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Michaël,

I am still trying to get more knowledge on the He219 but when it comes to Rüstsatze, you better forget all what has been published so far. The famous phylosophical expression 'cogito ergo sum' (I think, therefore I am) could be a fitting summary of all myths around the He219 history: many elements of what Heinkel had in mind for and with his He219 got an own life in later publications as 'existing'.

The remark about failing ammunition, the remarkable absence of the MG 151's in the wingroots AND the almost 'clean' cut of the upper half of the fuselage aft the SM installation can be coincidence... or it might suggest that either in or after the war the wreck had been visited and stripped of the most accessible weapons and ammunition.

Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Marcel,
Yes the wreck has been pilfered. Before the expansion of the harbour one could wade out to it. I would, however, suggest, that it would be difficult to remove the wing MG 151/20, four belts of 300 x 2 cm ammunition and get the loot ashore, without creating some public attention. ;)
bregds
Michaël

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Wasn't it already suggested it may have been a training/test/ferry flight with minimal armament?

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Denniss,

Yes, but in those cases they left the two heavy MK 108's out and we also know that for familiarisation flights with the He219, it was a safe precaution to leave the SN-2 antenna's in the workshop ;)

Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

Here are 2 pictures from the restoration team.

Greetings
Kim C

See more at >>> www.danas-have.dk/He219.htm

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Kim,
That is outstanding, your "little men" certainly know what they are doing.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

excellent to follow this thread and to see the care given to the wreck. I think this fades out all questions about ability of those who do the salvation to their job properly :) fingers crossed for other work...

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

To Brian Bines No.58.

We have now found the main radar (head) and some antenna parts, we try to determine the type.

Attached : Various types of radar.

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

There's another type of antenna mounting illustrated in this thread over at LEMB. The thread also discusses the installation of the NAXOS homer in some He 219s.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Kim,

Congratulations on the recovery, and the impressive restoration of the regulator. I hope the elusive werk nummer turns up. Did the witness add anymore information,

Regards

Brian Bines