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Re: eBay: Allied intrest
Thanks for these good links
Most of these a/c are in the excellent book Caudron Renault CR.714 Cyclone. The Ultimate Story - Belcarz/Rys/Stenman/Strzelczyk/Holda - Stratus/MMP books #1760_1 : Battle P2315, n°103 sqdn #1760_2 : Ms 406 n°1013 #1760_4 : Curtiss H-75 n°113 "4" of GC I/4 |
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You're welcome Bertrand.
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#1764 #1, #2 and #3 101 Sqn Lanc ?
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looks like next view of destroyed Belgian Hurricane H27
https://www.ebay.de/itm/3635421196...wUbFhPzmm |
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Schaffen-Diest or Le Culot? Cheers Stig |
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I have it like Schaffen. More photos of same plane: http://www.modelari.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2145 Some info is there: http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/gladiator_belgium.htm Faenor |
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Hi Faenor
As far as I can see, the main problem remains. If you read your own first line (from 2017) on the Modelari site, H27 was reported as damaged at Schaffen, but also said to have been repaired well enough to be able to evacuate to Le Culot where it was later destroyed. I don't know exactly when Daniel Brackx wrote that, but I have no further details, and I believe it was still an open case if H27 really was evacuated. The photos certainly show an aircraft which is in no condition to move anywhere, except by towing (or dismantling) It is an incredibly minor detail, meaning very little. Your post, however, reminded me that it was still a rather open question, so I just took a chance... :) Cheers Stig |
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Daniel Brackx' latest thoughts on Hurricanes make no mention of anywhere other than Schaffen for this aircraft:
https://www.belgian-wings.be/hawker-hurricane-i |
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Thanks Andy
The problem is that this present site gives less information about the Hurricanes than the previous data I have copied. Oh well, it was a silly question by me about a very minor issue, so I let it rest... :) Cheers Stig |
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1774 number 1.
First time that I have seen this Stirling in a photo that shows its RAF Squadron code after capture and application of Luftwaffe markings. Other photos usually have the Luftwaffe number . |
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Thanks Ed for the links
1774_4 : MS 406 n°918, GC III/2, Cambrai 1774_5 : Amiot 143 n°20 (E179) of GBMP (Groupe de Bombardement de Marche Polonais), Lyon second part of June 1940. Right side of this Amiot n°20 is page 284 of Les aviateurs polonais en France 1939-1940 by Bartłomiej Belcarz, Artipresse & FRROM. |
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2 Attachment(s)
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yes, it is old info and this machine remained at Schaffen and was only towed behind the hangar. Check these 2 photo and mainly the last plane on left - probably this is the plane, which escape from Schaffen, but I´m not sure for 100%. Faenor |
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Thanks Faenor
Let's go for the answer it never left Schaffen. :) Cheers Stig |
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https://www.ebay.de/itm/363548606113...AAAOSwJN5hRzYX
https://www.ebay.de/itm/363548550954...UAAOSwJmZhRyEq https://www.ebay.de/itm/363548550534...4AAOSw0HthRyCr https://www.ebay.de/itm/363546131960...EAAOSwWvphREft https://www.ebay.de/itm/124909388594...AAAOSwdwBhRzX0 Off topic https://www.ebay.de/itm/363546205898...oAAOSwWflhRFaI https://www.ebay.de/itm/313677758017...wAAOSwJGRhRFbY |
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#9 is Lysander L4773/RM-B of 26 Sqn, forced down on 20 May 40.
A photo of it before the souvenir hunters arrived is at: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/...-ops-lysander/ |
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1786 #3
13/05/40 L9332 PZ-Z |
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Post 1789, photo number 10. One of a series of pictures of this crash.
P/O. J.H.Rowden of 64 Sqn Spitfire P7784 "SH-L", 9th April 1941, There are also photos of the flack unit with the claim on equipment. Here is the list of claims 9.4.41 Spitfire 22.6.41 Spitfire 24.6.41 Spitfire 2.7.41 Spitfire 4.7.41 Bristol BL. |
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#2 is Battle P2332/PH-F of 12 Sqn, shot down by flak on 12 May 40, with crew taken POW: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C14142148
It actually crashed in Belgium, not the Netherlands as per TNA. #5 is I believe Battle P2249/HA-U of 218 Sqn, lost on 11 May 40. Again, all three crew were made POW. #9 is Blenheim T2282/YH-F of 21 Sqn, lost on the night of 11/12 Feb 41, with all three crew going into captivity |
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Ed,
Many thanks for that great selection, mainly from the French Campaign. I would add the following. #5 is actually L5235 HA-W of 218 Squadron, lost 14-5-1940 and much photographed. The real P2248 HA-U was lost on 11-5-1940 and apparently the bomb load blew up soon after it was forced landed. #6 at Mourmelon-le-Grand. #8 Spitfire N3180 KL-B of 54 Squadron, lost 28-5-1940. Regards, Martin. |
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Thank you gents. Your additional information is much appreciated.
Best, Ed |
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Post 1789, photo number 2
Fairey Battle P2332 (PH-F) 12 Squadron, crashed near Maastricht, The Netherlands, 12 May 1940 |
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If you trust the description of the photo is shows Hurricane P3426, 85 Sqn, lost 20.05.1940 near Amiens
https://www.ebay.de/itm/154652327060?hash=item2401f......haJw2 |
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Cheers Stig |
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Thx Stig,
So P3426 was coded VY-B (only B applied) and not VY-R as stated on the https://aviation-safety.....45 :-) Mariusz |
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If the squadron code letters VY was actually painted on the fuselage is something I don't know. Rather impossible to say since all three photos I have of it has all such things obliterated by the usual souvenir hunters....but why cut away the fabric exactly where the code should have been? Since it has clearly belly landed (and no sign of any collision) and has no real damage visible around the cockpit area, I have to wonder how the pilot died? No idea what 85Sq ORB has to say about this day, but I cannot escape the feeling this aircraft may have been flown by Sgt H N Howes who escaped unhurt after being shot down by a BF 110. P3426 just doesn't look like it had a dead pilot inside....but then again strange things always happen in wartime.... B Rgds Stig |
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If we look at the archive, there is considerable discussion about these losses:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archiv...p?t-12421.html You will note that towards the end Peter Cornwell states: "Photos have now emerged that indicate P3426 was NOT the aircraft flown by SHREWSBURY of No.85 Squadron when lost on 20 May 1940 as I have recorded in BoFrT&N." I do kind of agree with Stig when he says that he can't see how the pilot would have been killed in that incident. Not impossible of course though. I'm also not totally convinced that P3426 wore any code other than B. Bear in mind that this aircraft didn't seem to have any known service other than with Tangmere Station Flight, so it might be unlikely to have worn the 85 Sqn VY- code. Does anyone know what code sequence was actually used by Tangmere SF? |
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Marco, thank you for bringing that very interesting photo of P3426 ‘B’ to our attention.
(By the way, is that a wooden propeller on a P-series Hurricane ?). A lot to say on P3426 ‘B’, etc., but unfortunately not much to reveal. Firstly there is no evidence I know of that proves P3426 ‘B’ ever served with 85 Squadron. This was a replacement aircraft sent to France, probably without any coding and certainly no unit codes. The ‘B’ was almost certainly applied by the unit that received it in France. I have seen EBay photos of a wrecked Hurricane coded ‘VY-B’ on an airfield, but the serial was not readable. The wheels were down, the propeller blades intact and the wings removed. Most units in France over the duration of the campaign had two or more aircraft using the same individual letter. The Hurricane that Pilot Officer Shrewsbury died in crashed ‘around midday’ into the rear of houses at 217-219 Rue de Bapaume, Arras. It was speculated by the RAF postwar that this Hurricane and another flown by Acting Squadron Leader Peacock were probably destroyed together in the explosion of a fuel dump they were strafing at the time. The above information comes from the AIR 81/637 personnel casualty file for Shrewsbury. No conclusive but the best to date. The Hurricane serial was not recorded. I believe the late Heinrich Weiss was the source for attributing P3426 to Shrewsbury, as seen in ‘TWELVE DAYS IN MAY’ (p. 284) by Brian Cull, Bruce Lander and Heinrich Weiss. The above authors on the same page also have Pilot Officer Burton in ‘P2427’, but as noted elsewhere this was a Miles Magister. I speculate this might have been a typo for ‘P3427’. A Hurricane that was also lost in France, unit unknown. Burton was lost apparently around 3.30 p.m. Unusually he and Shrewsbury share the same AIR 81/637 casualty file. One further point. Though information is sketchy I must add the following on ‘Tangmere’. During May and June 1940 no Station Flights had Hurricanes on strength, only one or two Miles Magisters or similar. A month or two later during the Battle of Britain some stations possibly had the odd fighter on hand if not officially on strength. During May and June 1940 replacement Hurricanes were ferried to France from various Maintenance Units in the UK and were mainly routed through Tangmere. Here the ferry pilots were briefed (where to go) and the aircraft refuelled, then sent on their way. The RAF in England when dispatching these Hurricanes to France did not know what units would wind up flying them, so ‘Tangmere’ became the last known ‘owner’ for want of a better term as information on their service in France rarely came back. It seems ‘Manston’ also served in a similar but more limited way. Regards, Martin Gleeson. |
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