Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
 

Several years ago I was fortunate to borrow the B Flight Flying Log and nominal roll for the period March 1939 until late 1940. I was also given a snap of Flt Sgt A A Payne and 'Ginger' Lacey in a billet, allegedly at Tangmere (?) so they probably knew one another before the squadron went to France? (Sorry, I was asked not to pass it on by the originator) I asked both Minnie and Sheila Lacey where the name 'Jammy' came from but they were unable to recall.

Flt Sgt Payne is first mentioned in the B Flt log on 9 May 1940 flying L1949 for 35 mins. He may have been on A Flt previously but the log only provides the basic info, ie, no duty, except for pencil notes in the margin. The following day (10 May) he is mentioned twice: L1991 SD-R 1.40 hrs and L1866 SD-P 1.00 hrs.

On 11 May 1940 he flew L1991 SD-R for 50 mins and is noted as shooting down a He111 nr Mourmelon at 14.40hrs
12 May 1940 flew L2055 SD-K three times (55, 30 and 15 mins) and shot down a He 111 near Vouziers
14 May 1940 shot down He 111 near Rheims flying L2045 SD-A for 50 mins
15 May 1940 shot down Do17 nr Vouziers while flying L1949 SD-R for 20 mins
5 June 1940 "Shot down Bf110" nothing in log but did fly "2959 SD-R" the following day.

He is last mentioned as flying P3040 for 30 mins on 25 June 1940. Sheila Lacey seemed to recall that he possibly went on to fly again with another squadron, but was unable to recall which one?

Btw: I did not provide the individual pilot histories or compile the captions in the Listemann book.

Finally, unfortunately I am unable to enter into any further conversation on the subject, having suffered a recent stroke (it took all morning just to compile this, which I hope is of interest?)

Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
 

Hello Dave
thanks for your input, really sorry to hear of your recent stroke, I am certain that all of us on TOCH hope that you can fully recover and wish you all the best.
Just as an additional bit of information in "Ginger Lacey" by Bickers in his roster of pilot's still on 501 at the end of July he still includes Payne !(probably an error)
Bruce Lander

Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
 

Hi Dave,

Thank you for the most useful information. To my knowledge the serials and codes for all the claims, except for May 14, had not previously been known. In addition the claim for May 15 is new to me as I have not seen it in any previous account. You have both L1991 and L1949 coded SD-R. According to your book L1949 was coded SD-M.

I also extend my wishes for a speedy and complete recovery.

Best Wishes,
Tom

Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
 

Thanks, Dave

The update is most appreciated.

May I wish you speedy progress

Best
Brian

Re: replies to thread not being approved?
 

Hi

I have tried to post info several times re my grandfather AA payne or jammy Payne but nothing shows I have his records so it might help as there are many questions about him on here


Kind regards

Alyson Kelsey

Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
 

Hi Alyson

I would be very interested in any information you have on your Grandfather.
Best Wishes
Iain

Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
 

Hi Alyson,
Welcome to the forum.
It would be great to know more about your grandfather.
Please let us know which squadrons he was with in 1940 and the dates that he moved from one to another.
Kind regards
Gerry

Hi

Alfred Alexander Payne (Granddad ) was born in November 1900 he joined the Flying Corp 9.8.1917 service no 91018
He was in the RAF between the two wars which we have some details he married and had 4 children
from his records he was in 92 sqdn from 1/11/39 till 5/5/1940 when he went 501 sqdn till 8/7/1940 he then went to 57 OTU Hawarden he then went to Canada 39 SFTS & 35 SFTS till 27/5/1942 when he came back to Uxbridge
he was at Biggin hill from 11/9/1943 till he went to Tangmere in 23/4/1944

he is in the book Ginger Lacy and the picture shows him sitting next Ginger Lacy

We were told he was called Jammy because he got into a few jams when flying and managed to get out
we were also told he was one of the eldest fighter pilots in the second world war
hope this info helps as he seems to have caused lots of interest
Alyson Kelsey

he was with 92 sqdn from 1/11/1939 till 5/4/1940 when he joined 501 sqdn till 7/7/1940 when he joined 57 OTU he then went to Canada in 1941 to 39 &35 SFTS before coming back to the UK in 1942 Biggin Hill in 11/9/1943 and Tangmere in 1944

He joined the royal flying corps in 9/8/1917 91018 service no
and stayed on between the 2 wars
had 4 children
and we were told he was the oldest fighter pilot in the 2nd world war , he got his nick name Jammy because he managed to get out of many jams when flying

Alyson Kelsey

Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
 

Thank you Alyson,
That is a great help.
Regards
Gerry

Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
 

Alyson

Many thanks for the info on your grandfathers service history and dates for 92 Sqn, 501 Sqn and where he went to after 501 Sqn - This was always a mystery - Yes without a doubt he was one of the oldest fighter pilots at the time.

I think their was always a mystery as to why he only was MiD for Battle of France, his record I believe would indicate at least a DFM should have been made

One of the mysteries Gerry Burke I think wanted to clear up is should he have been on the Battle of Britain roll the dates of qualifying are at least one operational sortie between on a Fighter Sqn between 10 July 1940 – 31 October 1940 - in fact a new name was only added a few days ago

His experience (and maybe age) was obviously the reason he sent to 57 OTU on the 7th July 1940 (just missing the cut off date) as he was needed to train those younger fighter pilots just coming out of training - Especially as he had actual combat experience to pass on

Many Thanks for posting the info and can I ask do you have any access to his log books at the time?

Kind Regards

Paul