Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Kim,

The presence of antennas is (again) a good omen that this He219 was not one of the birds of the Schulstaffel NJG 1. As the Schulstaffel had no He219's in/after September 1944, that is an indirect confirmation of the eyewitness account and the large chance that this He219 actually belonged to the I./NJG 3 which had/got He219 in the first month(s) of 1945...

I do hope that the wing will reveal its secrets soon!

Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

BREAKING NEWS!
The aircraft has engine nacelle fuel tanks in the cones, according to German documentation so did the A-5, but neither the A-0 nor the A-2. Was the A-7 also so equipped?
Also the a/c has guns in the wing roots.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Michaël,

Fuel tanks in the cones is definitely pointing to a He219A-7 and because we already know that the wreck was a Rostock produced bird, we are now able to narrow down the number of possible Werkenummer.

We also know - thanks to information from Sven, Jörn and Gerhard - that some He219A-7's were delivered to the I./NJG 3 in Grove mid January 1945 and after.

If an ID tag can be found on the tank in the cone(s) we have confirmation.

Jolly good show ! Keep up the good work, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

According to the colored part list (Bauausführungs-Übersicht) attached on one of the earlier pages the nacelle tank system could be retrofitted to A-2 and A-0.

EDIT - Attached to this post: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showpo...&postcount=140
Notice the parts with Asterix in the section "Bedien- und Leitungsanlage"

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello All

Now there are new pictures from the He-219 Denmark.

New informations:
There are white painting on the spinner ( spiral )
A number beside MG 151 in the bottom
A description on the left wing tip


And follow up of a good idea from SES, # 162
” fuel tanks in the cones “

Please look at >>>> www.danas-have.dk/He219.htm

Row A pic 5 + 6
Row B pic 5 No of MG151

Row 1A pic 4 + 5
Row 2A pic 3 + 4 + 5
Row 3A pic 1 + 2 + 3 + 4

Various answers:
There has not been written anything under the mutter-compass. # 137

Under the seats and panels, we will follow this up # 134

So far, nothing found at the underside of the wings # 137
Todays found a description on left wingtip. Row A pic 6

We are still looking for Werke Number # 112 + 138

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Here's a few images from the NASM He-219 A-2. The Nacelle rear fuel tank filler cap, the end of the wing without the wingtip, the forward nacelle fuel tank, and the nacelle bulkhead.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Thank you Kim.

Remarkable to see how much of the aluminum appears uncorruded. This wreck must have been sand and silt covered for a long time.

Row A pic 6, what number is there painted (inverted) beside circular cover (?), I can see "12.." <by how paint brush leaves its mark> but picture does not show the whole area. Could that possibly be part of W.Nr. ??????

Ok. Probably no Stkz. code letters ever painted on this one under the wings. Was hoping maybe for codes but not shure as very few He 219 seem have them painted, except prototypes or research aircraft. (Most Ju 88 G-6 had no Stkz. painted) Stkz. = Stammkennzeichen (four letter Luftwaffe indentification "safety code)

Looking at paint, I think this airplane was black under, either overall black or partly black only on undersides. Maybe no news to them familiar with He 219, but careful study of this can aid in indentification later on. Black Spinners with White Spirals was very common on late war Luftwaffe planes. "Reddish-Brown" paint on end of one aileron etc.. Black "parts" paint often faded this way (ref: Jumo 211 J engine blocks & Radio Panel "fronts" from Ju 88s)

Best regards
Ed

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

Ed North and Tony Kambic.

A good observation, I have not seen it, but focused on the brass.

I "fly" in there next week and take a better picture !!!

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

A bit off-topic, for those collecting He 219 Stkz. here are a few of them found in German pilots logbooks I have come across.

He 219 BR+US Ferry Vienna-Aspern to Venlo 01.05.44 [F Uffz. Kleinsveg with Zeidler]
He 219 BQ+NK Rechlin 09.01.44 [Eisermann]
He 219 CH+CW Erprobung Tarnewitz 21.12.43 [Gatzemaier]
He 219 CS+Qi Bremslandung? Rechlin 29.01.44 [Baist]
He 219 DE+DV Ferry Vienna-Schwechat to Venlo 14.04.44 [F Uffz. Dabrev´ with Zeidler]
He 219 DK+QJ Rechlin 24.01.44 [Eisermann]
He 219 GH+PU Erprobung Tarnewitz 18.12.43 [Gatzemaier]
He 219 PK+QA Erpröbung Larz 16.03.44 [Tappenbek]
- 2x Erpröbung Larz 26.03.44 [Tappenbek]
He 219 PK+QG Erpröbung Larz 03.04.44 [Tappenbek]
He 219 PK+QL Werkstattflug Rechlin 15.02.44 [Baist]
- Messflug Rechlin 22.02.44 [Baist]
- Steigflug 8 km Rechlin 21.03.44 [Baist]
He 219 G9+IH NJG 1 Justierflug´ Venlo 17.-19.08.43 [Mayr/Auracher]

Anybody have tie-ups to W.Nr.´s on these ?

Best regards
ed

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Ed.

PK+Q is a valid He 219 Row. BR+US is a Ar 96. BQ+NK unknown. CH+CW is a H 129 at Tarnewitz. CS+OI is CS+QI. DE+DV is DV+DV. DK+QJ is PK+QJ. GH+PU is a Fw 190 at Tarnewitz, but could be GU+BU?

Junker

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

A few tidbits on the NASM He-219 ( 290202 )

Production Date: 11/44
Transfer Code: GI + KQ

Vertical Stabilizers are taken from FE 613 ( 290060 )
DB603 engines are from FE 612 ( 210903 )

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

@Kambic. Thanks, beautiful restoration and interesting info you give, you perhaps are working on this? @Junker and all. Forgot to say this is unchecked info, "direct from the cow". Note I did write CS+Q (not CS+O ) but the BK+NK should have been with uncertain B (BK+NK). Very much like others to perhaps air their´s etc. Regards, ed

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi all.

Is there anyone who know what it means , this plane have only the 2 crosses and no letters and the crosses are mounted near the wing tip ??

Was it out of the command?

Please see attached photo !!!

Please look at >>> www.danas-have.dk/He219.htm
8th row second pic in camera 2.

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Kim.
Does it have to mean anything? Yes, a good point. This plane seems having had Gray uppersides and Black wing crosses. Them few photos of crosses on upper side of wings on He 219 known seem very similar, this seems having just a little bit further out. But wingtips are off, accounting for some of this, and schematic diagram may refer to much earlier period, and plane not painted same way as in dimensions chart (perhaps prepainted "wrong" in another factory?) Countless reasons can be for this, an repaint (in the field) could be another one. Taking photos of everything with a scale bar alongside and measure and note all before cleaning. Re, codes, this normally were only on undersides (if at all).
Regards, Ed

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

@edNorth ( copying your style ), I have not worked on the He-219. I will send you a PM also.

I am trying to help Kim and crew with any info I can dig up here at NASM has that might help identify it. I think they are doing a great job and certainly keeping us mesmerized.

Tony

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Ed.

Sorry for the mishap. I can clearly see that you wrote CS+Q;-)

Greetings from Denmark
Junker

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello All

Now there are new pictures from the He-219 Denmark.

New informations:
A description on the wing tip + flap.
Picture of frame of mutterkompas,looking from front to rear.
Picture of radar head.
Ass photos.


@Ed North Row D ... Picture 1 to 4 !!!


Please look at >>>> www.danas-have.dk/He219.htm


Camera 1:

Row C pic 1 to 5
Row D pic 1 to 6
Row E pic 1 + 2


Row 2A pic 6
Row 3A pic 5 + 6

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Thank you Kim.

Answering your question I see two (three digit) "sets" of numbers (on right outer wing end) but togeather they make an six digit number - "122 123" - and then no similar markings on other end.
Wing was one piece, as I understand from factory manuals, so wing marked only on one end, perhaps makes sense in that this (possibly) be the number for the whole (wing) or even the aircraft W.Nr. ?

My privat He 219 "list" (and far from complete) does not have any starting with 12x xxx but covers (possible blocks) for only about 220 - 230 aircraft in total, including W.Nr. starting with 000 xxx, 190 xxx, 210 xxx, 290 xxx, 310 xxx, 420 xxx.

I wonder if same or similar numbers be found on covers on bottom of wing are examined. NASM bird had W.Nr. penciled on one wing end (per Tony Kambic posts) and also inside bottom panels.

Best regards
Ed

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello all,

I had some days off and see these postings for the first time. Kim: thank you for sharing the latest discoveries with us!

The 219-300 and 219-301 numbers do refer to the ailerons left and right and (again) lxx refers to the manufacturer of these parts.

Ed: may I contact you about the Werkenummer/flight logs off board ? That subject would blur the ongoing search here for the identity of the Danish He219 I guess.

Best wishes, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello

Row E number 1: Lichtstärke (light intensity)
Row E number 2: Rücklicht (tail lights switch); Einteisung (de-icing switch)and (in the background) Termostat (heating switch)

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

The 122 & 123 is identical to how the production facility would have marked various large areas with the airraft werk number. This was VERY common on the Me109 and Fw190.

It is strange that the numbers are 2 groups, and are sequential...

So not sure if that would reference anything with the werk.

But those are the types of markings to look for inside the fuselage.

mike

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Harrison. Yes, I agree (similar can be found in some Ju88s) but then you are contradicting yourself, in line four. I do belive these may be factory related, and possibly tie in with W.Nr. in some way.

One thought I have had, is that (wing) had been ear-marked to "123" but then (one wing not ready in time or destroyed) and wing assembly moved "forward" one "notch" to "122" (perhaps used on 122nd aircraft ?)

And, Yes, numbers from other parts may solve this puzzle.

Anyways, I am investigating factory info just in from Marcel but have not had enough time to digest (@Marcel - replay mail in your gmail box).

Best regards
Ed

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello All

New photos from the He-219 in Denmark.

Please look at >>>>> www.danas-have.dk/He219.htm

Camera 1. Row 4A Picture 1 + 2 Pls note : The air bottles dont belong here !!!

Photo of the description of fuel-cones, and the braces and brackets from
the bottom of the plane , in front of the mutter compass.

We still need answers, why there was a magazine and ammo for the MG-15. Could this be the 3 seat in version A-5 ??

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Dear Kim,

Please look at my posting #16, there are no A-5's and the sole "3 seats" He219's were either
- ordinary series produced A-0's, A-2's or A-7's with an emergency seat in the aft fuselage part (as can be seen at your latest photo)
- ordinary series produced A-0's at the II./NJG 1 where the aluminium plating of the aft entrance door panel was replaced with perspex. In this second case, you can't speak of a real 3 seater, it's a sort of emergency solution
- one of the very few (at the moment 2 identities known) 3 seat prototypes, which - if succesfull - could have been produced as the planned A-5 but this version went never into production.

Everybody may firmly believe that there actually flew A-5's around but as I have told over and over again, there are no documented indications for that myth. Unless someone comes with indispituble evidence of these UFO, I stop commenting on He219A-5's, pink elefants, Yeti's and sightings of Adolf Hitler in the grocery shop next door.

Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Dear all,

I must apologize: there is quite an A-5 production but these are from AUDI, not Heinkel...

Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Marcel

I'm glad that you confirm that the myth is still valid.

# 184 : there are no documented Indications for that myth

Please see attached.

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Kim,

This is a nice, yet another fantasy that has certainly not its origins in the technical drawings department of Heinkel:
1) this is not an A-5 but V-5, the 5th prototype
2) at least the illustrator thought he made a drawing of this V-5: the 'step' beneath the fuselage after the gun bay (originally meant for the remote controlled rearwards firing barbette) was in reality on the upperside of the fuselage too but here absent. In other words: for the first 6 preproduction He219 prototypes (hence He219V-1, V-2, V-3, V-4, V-5 and V-6) the fuselage narrowed after the wingsection on the lower AND upper side
3) the bubble type canopy had a provisional little rear window which could be modified to place a rear firing machine gun but there is no single indication that here ever was mounted a machine gun at all: not in the Heinkel archives, not on available photo's of He219's with this bubble type cockpit.

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi,
The NASM He 219 (FE-614, W.Nr 290202 a A-2 model) does indeed have such an emergency seat. Please see post # 52.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello All

Latest image from Ib Lødsen and his restoration team.

Can " YOU " guess what it is ??


If not, please look here at Camera 1. Row 2A Pic 4.

www.danas-have.dk/He219.htm

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Kim,

Thanks for the lastest info. unfortunately still not revealing an identity. It is likely that even if the aircraft is identifed the reason for the MG15 magazine may not come to light, as I see it the possibilities are :-

1. Unit fitting of an MG15 for defence either through the rear hatch as described by Marcel, or through rear cockpit if no radar carried. I believe you said the wreckage did not also have full armament.

2. A possible late war crash where the crew stored a MG15 on board to be used as self-defence if crashlanding in the rapidly expanding Allied territory.

3. The Magazine was lost from a rescue boat or salvage boat attending the ditching.

From the witness it would appear this was daytime ditching following engine trouble during the occupation, has anymore come from this source, or from harbour records.
The restore team are having great results,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Kim,

Since your He-219 rear seat had the radar mask, wouldn't that make it impossible to have the MG 15 mounted in the rear cockpit?

Your picture Camera 1 Row 14, pic. 1,2 and compared with NASM mask. (attached ).

Also, your lasted restored item looks similar to the tool used to remove the Schrag Muzik cannons.

Tony

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Tony,
Very well spotted and thanks for sharing another of your fantastic FE 614 pics.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

On SES Night Fighter's Odds and Ends page, in document:

He 219 A-0 Teil 8A Beiheft 1 Schreagbewaffnung

page 14 item #3 seems to be the tool.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

No new info ?

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello All

After numerous searches in the area where the plane crashed, we can now see that the area is fed up to 2 meters of sand.

We still keep an eye on the site and want to search with side scan when the sand is gone again.

Parts of the wreckage will be restored step by step and we hope that we can find a workable ID number in the future.

Attached a new photo from the restoration team.

Greetings
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Kim,
Thanks for keeping us updated on this most important discovery.
The colors on the dipole indicates that it is one of the lower ones.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Kim,

Thanks for keeping us terribly impatient souls informed.

I have checked all old correspondence with former I./NJG 1 personel for remarks about the He219, something I had on my 'to do list' for the He219 project a long time.
No clues found to any He219 loss of the I./NJG 1 but nevertheless a rewarding effort, because I found several important observations, unfortunately not to any losses not already known from other documentary sources.

Keep up the good work and I hope the side scanner will lead you to the tailsection.

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Went to see the plane yesterday for the first time since its raising. One of the museum staff was removing the rubber fuel bladder from the aft nacelle tank. He commented that the fuel filler connections only needed a slight tap then the screws unscrewed nicely. I looked closer at the recess where they had been and in there was written 'werk nr 195487'. I know this does not correspond to the known ranges 190xxx. 290xxx and 310xxx, but it did say werk nr. I have a photo but cannot upload now as the net on my camping site sucks. Will try later.

Any comments on that number?

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Ahhh - connection at last

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...9/003-Copy.jpg

Stupid me didn't photograph the actual text "Werk nr", but you can see the "nr"

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Nice but not the Wnr of the aircraft. A lot of things on an airplane had Wnr, that had nothing to do with the actual Wnr.

Junker