Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Appart from the machine in this photo, what's the source for Braunegg's aircraft wearing a yellow band?

A document in the Bundesarchiv confirms the Kommando was part of 1./Versuchsverband OKL while three ULTRAS from 26–28 November 1944 give the codes of the five Me 262s then on strength as NH, OH, PH, QH, RH and SH. These individual letters follow straight on from those given to the Staffel's Ar 234s and as such it seems probable that, like the Arados, they carried the T9 unit code (sadly no photos of this have surfaced yet).

(Sources: BA-MA RL 2-III/67 (page 0021); ULTRA CX/MSS/R382(C) paras. 1, 5 and 5)

About the single cannon, ULTRA CX/MSS/R489(C), para. 19 from 2 March 1945 says:

From UDASO ((NAG)) 6 Lechfeld, No. 157 to (B% UDIAN) ((2./NAG)) 6 Schwaebisch Hall dated 2/3:

In accordance with No. 1118 from GALNA ((AO for Recce) Silber ((Me 262)) a/c are to be used without armament till standard production for 2 MK 108. Supplementary equipment with armament is to cease.

Supplement ((NAG)) 6: Supplementary equipment has again been asked for.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Hi Nick,

You are quite right to call me on this. I added two and two and got five. There is no documentary proof that Erprobungskommando Braunegg wore yellow bands. But, why does this one have it?

Jim

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Possibly a converted Erpr.Kdo. 262 or EJG 2 machine? But that’s only guesswork.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Just a guess, perhaps one of the recon machines that had been sent to EJG2 at Lechfeld for training was sent back to Braunegg as Nick suggests?

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Hi Nick and Dan,

You may be correct. Me 262s of III./EJG 2 at Lechfeld were distinguished not only by the yellow band but, in many photos, by white or bare metal forward engine nacelle cowls. In particular, photos of Erich Hohagen in Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 170071 White 2 on 15 November 1944 show such bare metal cowls. A close look at "white 3" in my #261 shows that the cowls are replacements.

Jim

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1129

266. This photo shows Me 262 A-2a W.Nr. 170041 "white 10", possibly of the detachment of Erprobungskommando 262 at Lärz in the summer of 1944. Note its early RLM 74/75/76 camouflage and distinctive white hakenkreuz. The zero in its "10" is clearly a different shape to the zero of W.Nr. 110926 "white 10" of III./EJG 2. At some point it was assigned to E-Stelle Lärz, (O'Connell, p. 46).


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1130

267. This poor screenshot of "white 10" shows its camouflaged forward engine cowls and a single early ETC-503 bomb rack on its port side. On it, the "041L" can just be made out.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1131

268. Probably in late fall 1944, "white 10" underwent upgrades. Stronger landing gear struts allowed all four MK 108s to be installed and the ETC-503 was removed and a Wikingerschiff bomb rack was attached to the starboard side. A sharper view seen in O'Connell, page 210, reveals the Ar 234 as having the stammkenzeichen "NM+xx", which series had their first flights in the last weeks of November 1944.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1132

269. Another screenshot from the same training film shows one of the ground crew pulling the "O"-ring with its cord to the Riedel starter motor to ignite the Jumo 004. Note the two white gun rectangles. In this scene there appears to be snow beneath the aircraft.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1133

270. Also that winter, "white 10" was part of an exhibit for Albert Speer. To the right is a Do 335, probably V5, (see Smith, Creek and Petrick, On Special Missions, (Air War Classica, 2003), p. 46). W.Nr. 170041 "white 10" was still with E.Kdo. Lärz on 10 March 1945, (O'Connell, p. 46).

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1134

271. Me 262 V1 W.Nr. 262 000 0001 "PC+UA" first flew as a conventional piston-engined aircraft powered by a single Junkers Jumo 210G. Messerschmitt test pilot Fritz Wendel lifted off the runway at Augsburg at 13:40 hours on 18 April 1941. He quickly returned due to an overheated engine.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1135

272. This and the previous photo show that the standard Luftwaffe markings were first painted over the bare metal airframe whose different tones suggest wide vertical bands of colour.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1136

273. This is a photo that was cropped from a larger view of the front of the hangar at Augsburg, which can be seen on page 86 of Smith & Creek, Me 262 Volume One, (Classic, 1997). This cropping shows that the V1 retained the Jumo piston engine while a pair of BMW P.3302 V2/V10 prototype turbojets were installed between September and December 1941 at Augsburg.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1137

274. "On 25 March 1942, the aircraft attempted to take off from Augsburg on the power of all three engines (its 48th flight), but just after leaving the ground both turbojets suffered compressor blade failures. This forced Fritz Wendel to land the heavily laden prototype on the power of the piston engine alone," Smith & Creek, p. 86. The BMWs were removed and it was test flown using its piston engine in the summer of 1942. It was then sent back to the factory to be rebuilt with two Junker Jumo 004 A-0 engines.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1138

275. Now fitted with Jumo 004 turbojets, W.Nr. 033, port and 039, starboard and without the piston engine in the nose, V1 first flew on jets alone on 19 July 1943 and was transferred to Lechfeld as a test aircraft.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1139

276. On page 161 of Me 262 Volume One, Smith and Creek give this caption for this photo, "Believed to show the Me 262 V1 (PC+UA) after it was rebuilt with Jumo 004 engines. The aircraft was fitted with a production type canopy, but was destroyed on 7 June 1944 ...". O'Connell, p. 14, explains that "It crashed and was damaged while flown by Heinz Herlitzius on its 95th flight on 7 June ... It was destroyed on 12 September in a bombing raid by the US 15th Air Force."

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

It seems at least possible that this was one of the first three airframes made available for conversion to the reconnaissance role, hence the non-standard nose panels.

From Bundesarchiv RL 2-I/79, Lageorientierungen und Einsatzplanungen.- Tagesverlauf, Besprechungsnotizen, Bd. 1 (März-Juni 1944), frame _0208.

Der Chef des Lutwaffenführungsstabes Den 22.6.1944

Ia Nr. 4532/44 g.Kdos.17.Ang.

Tagesverlauf am 22.6.44

6.) … Chef Genst. ist mit der Forderung 3 Zellen Me 262 für Aufklärer, wie schon bereits mehrmals gefordert freizugeben, einverstanden. Die 3 Zellen sind für Einbau der 3 vorhandenen Bildkanzeln freizugeben.

Roughly translated:

Day's events, 22 June 1944

6.) … The Chief of the General Staff is in agreement with the requisition, as already submitted several times, to make available 3 Me 262 airframes for reconnaissance [versions]. The 3 airframes are to be made available for the installation of the 3 existing camera nose-sections.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Thank you, Nick. The mention of the "3 existing camera nose-sections" on 22 June 1944 is particularly interesting.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1140

277. From Dan O'Connell, Me 262 The Production Log, (Classic, 2005), p. 16:
"Flugkapitän Fritz Wendel made two taxiing runs on 17 July 1942. On the following rainy day, he took off from Leipheim at 08:40 to complete the first Me 262 all jet flight. This lasted for 12 minutes and was made with Jumo T1 [004 A0] engines V8 and V9. It was necessary to apply the brakes in order to bring up the tail, after which rudder and stabilizer response was good but the ailerons were too light. He made the second, 13 minute, flight of the day at 12:05. Landings were easily accomplished at 190 km/h, with the second occurring on the grass field ...".
These screenshots, are taken from the YouTube video "Messerschmitt Me 262", starting at 0:47, of Me 262 V3 W.Nr. 262 000 0003 with the stammkennzeichen "PC+UC".


forum.12oclockhigh.net/album.php?albumid=73&pictureid=1141

278. The first four Me 262 prototypes were tail draggers with rear wheels and the wings swept back only from the outside of the engine nacelles. The bubble canopy of the first six prototypes had an unbroken surround curved perplex windscreen and distinctine vertical three panel sectioning on the port side of the main cover. The huge engine nacelles of the Jumo 004 A0 turbojets of 600 kg thrust are also noteable. And there are no leading edge slots on the wings.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1142

279. That this film was shot possibly on 18 July 1942 is evidenced by the lack of the white "V3" seen later in front of the hakenkreuz on both sides of the tailfin. The rudder already has a Flettner tab and appears darker than in the colourized photos. Both the hakenkreuz and balkenkreuz are standard 1942 markings. The upper surfaces and wings have a splinter camouflage of RLM 74 and 75 with mottled sides, Smith & Creek, Me 262 Volume one, p. 94.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1143

280. Me 262 V3 W.Nr. 262 000 0003 "PC+UC" had made its first flight on 18 July 1942. It then served as a test aircraft to determine flight characteristics and the utility of new modifications. Its last flight on 11 September 1944 was number 149 with 54 hours of flying time. The next day, it was 75% damaged in an Allied bombing of Lechfeld and was written off, (O'Connell, p.17).


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1144

281. This may be Me 262 V3 W.Nr. 262 000 0003 "PC+UC" at the moment of lift off on its first all-jet flight on the morning of 18 July 1942.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

hi all,

there is a link on video on plane described in previous posts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXdhLCPAcqE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5JYn3yW8qM

Faenor

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Thank You, Faenor. I have never seen the first one. They are much appreciated.

best regards,

Jim

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1145

282. On 15 April 1945, elements of the 102nd U.S. "Ozark" Infantry Division captured this Me 262 A-1a in a hangar at Stendal airfield. At first glance, it seems to be intact.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1146

283. The lack of a vertical stripe between the two RVT bands of blue/red indicate that this is Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 112385 of I. Gruppe of JG 7. The distinctive yellow hue of the "8" as compared to the white of the balkenkreuz reveals a machine of 3. Staffel. The glare of the sun on the black werknummer and hakenkreuz is deceptive.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1147

284. A GI inspects the intake of the port Jumo 004.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1148

285. A close look at the outer port nacelle of "yellow 8" shows the entrance schrapnel holes from a burst of German flak, see O'Connell, p. 149.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1149

286. The sign at the right reads "Look but don't touch." The "exit wounds" of the flak burst are visible in this picture. W.Nr. 112385 was taken to the American collection yard at Kassel in case it was needed to be shipped to the States, but it was scrapped there.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Nice selection Jim.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Thanks Dan.

forum.12oclockhigh.net/album.php?albumid=73&pictureid=1152

287. The highly camouflaged waldwerk known as "Kuno I" was located in the dense coniferous forest along the A8 autobahn near Scheppach between Ulm and Augsburg. Me 262 A-1a/Jabo W.Nr. 111755 was one of two fully camouflaged aircraft found by American troops in April 1945 among many unpainted Me 262s in the process of assembly. In this picture W.Nr. 111755 is seen in its original location and is easily recognized by the camo pattern on the outer port nacelle.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1153

288. The Americans were very lucky not to have caused a nose wheel collapse when towing W.Nr. 111755 out onto the roadway using only the nose wheel attachment bar. Note the extensive use of camouflage netting.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1154

289. While W.Nr. 111755 displays the characteristic camo pattern of JV 44, the addition of the wikingerschiff bomb rack suggests it was destined for KG 51. The waldwerk buildings are well hidden in this photograph.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1155

290. Another view is more revealing of the buildings.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1156

291. It seems every passing GI scratched his name on the fuselage of this aircraft.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Another good selection Jim, thank you. Nice to see it fully confirmed at being found at Kuno.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1157

292. The second camouflaged Me 262 a-1a/Jabo found at "Kuno I" waldwerk was W.Nr. 111747. "Kuno I" did not have its own airfield but was purposely built close to a straightaway stretch of the A8 autobahn. In this photo, W.Nr 111747 is shown to be on a path among the trees close to the autobahn. Note the hydro pole with four white insulators that are an identifiable feature in many of the pictures of unfinished Me 262s along this road.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1158

293. The werknummer can barely be made out in this photograph but the damage to the aircraft seems not to have come from explosives as in the Hofoldinger Forest but by the deliberate use of heavy equipment. Damage is apparent to the port side of the nose and to the port nacelle, and the tail has been pushed sideways. The unpainted Me 262 behind it has had a bulldozer bucket dropped on it.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1159

294. The Germans before the damage seem to have dropped the rigid tow bar and covered the intact aircraft with pine branches to camouflage it.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1160

295. This well known photo shows the narrow forest road behind the aircraft and the large number of now desiccated branches.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1161

296. Me 262 W.Nr. 111747 became a favourite of passing GIs on which to pose.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1162

297. On 27 March 1945, the partly dismantled Me 262 A-2a W.Nr. 170312 was captured by GIs on the outskirts of Rhein-Main airfield. It had suffered 15% damage on 19 February when Hptm. Rolf Roßberg of 3./KG 51 rolled into a bomb crater while landing according to Jan Horn, Das Flurschaden Geschwader, p. 242.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1163

298. When first captured, it was tilted to its side due to the collapsed starboard landing gear. Note the single white gun rectangle but lack of bomb racks. There are no markings that indicate this was an aircraft of KG 51.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1164

299. In this photo, W.Nr. 170312 has been jacked-up and placed on three mobile braces. Note that both MK 108 cannon can be seen on the port side.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1165

300. In this colourised photo, the leading edge slat and root fairing of the port wing are noticeably missing.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1166

301. According to Dan O'Connell, Me 262 Production Log, p. 69: "It was then sent to Frankfurt and is believed to have been shipped back to the USA aboard Madawaska Victory as a source of spare parts for W.Nr. 111711...".

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

And Clark Gable smoking his pipe ...

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Hi Franck,

And George C. Scott on the other side of the plane ...

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Great photos Jim, some I havn't seen.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Jim,

Don't you have the original picture instead of this colorized one? It is a Life magazine one....

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

No. I do have one of a poorer resolution. Thanks for the lead. I'll look for it.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1167

302. The airfield at München-Riem was captured by American forces on 30 April 1945. As there were many types of aircraft taken, a line-up of the various German aircraft was made. At the extreme right was an Me 262.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1168

303. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 500516 was listed as being at the DLH facility at München-Riem on 26 April 1945. On p. 97 of Jagdverband 44 Squadron of Experten, Robert Forsyth speculates, "It is possible that this was the defective aircraft that 'Jupp' Dobnig was ordered to fly out of Munich on or around 28 April 1945." Dobnig was warned that it was not fit to fly and left it behind, taking a truck ride to Salzburg. You can barely see the scalloping pattern on the leading wing edge.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1169

304. A GI sits atop the port wing of W.Nr. 500516. The werknummer can just be made out in this photo. Note the filled-in bomb craters.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1170

305. The "giraffe"-style camouflage of large splotches of RLM 83 over RLM 82 can be seen in this view. Note the dent in the bottom of the rudder indicating a takeoff incident.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1171

306. Eventually, W.Nr. 500516 was dragged to the Riem dump and piled with the other German aircraft before being scrapped.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

At least 5 Me262 shown in photo 306

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Jim,

Photo 305: This is certainly a late 500xxx machine but not WNr.500516. Compare the upper/lower surface demarcation line on the outer rear portion of the port Jumo 003 engine. We so far do not know this particular machine’s location or Werknummer. Other photos reveal that WNr.500516 ended up close to the easternmost building / hanger at München-Riem. Indeed, was very close to the JV 44 Fw 190 D-11 “Red 4” WNr.220010 and captured in a colour photograph.

Photo 306: This is another late 500xxx series aircraft but not WNr.500516. It is one of a group of over a dozen Me 262s from this Werknummerserie discarded at the extreme eastern end of the München-Riem aircraft dump. Unfortunately, except for one machine (WNr.500517), all show only their starboard sides. The Werknummern for this late series were applied only on the port side of the fin close to the leading edge and just above the stabilizers, and the characters very tight to each other.

Camouflage of these late 500xxx series Me 262s was a lightly-applied overall coat or RLM 82 (Hellgrün) followed with large spots of RLM 81 (Braunviolet) on the fuselage, and in the ‘standard’ pattern on the wings. Except for control surfaces, undersides were left mostly in natural metal. The nose component and engine nacelles did have an application of RLM 76 on their undersides.

Best,

David

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Hi David,

Thank you for the correction. I agree that while the demarcation line between the upper and lower camouflage on the port engine nacelle in photo #305 is crisp, that in # 306 is graduated. What misled me was the light coloured rectangle at the root of the dropped outer flap in both pictures.

best regards,

Jim

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1172

307. According to Dan O'Connell, p. 162, the 798th Signals Corps extensively photographed this aircraft on 4 April 1945. The press-release that went with this photo reads: "This slightly damaged jet-propelled plane was found on an airfield at Giebelstadt, Germany by troops of the 12th Armoured [sic] Division, US 7th Army. The plane appears to have been hit in the right wheel by shrapnel, although left wheel assembly broke down as it landed, causing the plane to skid on runway. The plane carries two bombs, has two jet nacelles and a tricycle landing gear. Plane number is 500079, FI, D.A."



http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1173

308. Note the two 'bombs' to the left in this picture and the matching tail and nose tip colours.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1174

309. The aircraft code "F1+DA" indicates that this Me 262 A-1a (no bomb racks or camera bulges) belonged to the geschwaderstab of KG 76, a bomber unit that used Arado Ar 234 B-2s late in the war. The colour code used by the geschwaderstab of a bomber unit was either blue or green. Note, in this picture, the carefully painted band on the leading edge of the nacelle cowling, which is in the same manner and dimensions as the bands seen on the cowlings of the Jumo 004 engines of the Ar 234s of KG 76. I have never seen similar bands on aircraft of Me 262 units.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1175

310. This is a photo of Arado Ar 234 B-2 W.Nr. 140600 "F1+AA" of the geschwaderstab of KG 76 that was captured at Flensburg. If you look closely you can see the tip of the black "A" above the man's head. To my eye, the shading of the light coloured "A" is green which would also be the colour of the engine cowl bands. However, unlike KG 51's Me 262s, KG 76 did not apply tail tip colours to its Arados.



http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1176

311. In all photos of W.Nr. 500079, the simple black hakenkreuz has been oversprayed but is still visible. This picture gives a good view of how the thin white strip underscores the solid coloured tail tip.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1177

312. In this photo it can be seen that the colour of the "D" matches that of the tail tip in the previous picture. Also the open access hatch in the middle of the starboard balkenkreuz indicated that the FuG 16 Z apparatus was removed by the Germans before leaving Giebelstadt.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

In this photo it can be seen that … once again someone had to go and stand in front of the damned fuselage markings!

I know the F1 code is documented (and has been discussed here in the past, I think with a big contribution from David E. Brown) but I'd still like to see it with my own eyes or, failing that, a KG 76 strength return that includes an Me 262.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Nick, I'm pretty sure I DID see 262's on KG76 inventories, and must have mentioned that in some respect in the book.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Nick. I do recall seeing something that I believe Manfred sent me once. some AR234 pilot from KG76 just walked into the "office" of possibly JG7 and just "asked" to borrow a 262 for a recon mission. Brought it back about an hour later LOL

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Thanks Dan,

Next question … if it's a KG 76 machine, how come large D/small A on the nosewheel door (KG 51 marking style) rather than DA all the same size (KG 76 style)?

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

No idea Nick.

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Hi Nick,

So far, I have not seen any documentary evidence of KG 76 having Me 262s. Moreover, Jan Horn in KG 76 Die Chronik ... makes two references to an Ar 234 marked "F1+DA". However, just to muddy the waters further:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1178

This is a composite photo showing the styles and sizes of the markings by KG 51 and KG 76 and the placement of the black "F1" and "9K" ahead of the balkenkreuz. Note that in both cases the bottom of the 'aircraft letter' matches the lower white bar of the side of the balkenkreuz.

In a previous thread on W.Nr. 500079, Matolion posted a link to this poor photo from "A History of the United States Army Twelfth Armored Division".

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1179

Best regards,

Jim

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

Gents,

Just a thought: What if the aircraft was indeed associated with KG 76 but originally from KG 51 and thus ‘prepared’ for KG 76 by them prior to handover?

“F1+DA” certainly was painted by someone associated with KG 51. This unit from its inception liked to ‘brighten-up’ their aircraft with colours associated their respective staffeln and gruppen painted on various component extremities. One can easily recognize it in photos of its aircraft from 1939 to the end of the war.

This particular machine’s markings are exactly what is seen on Me 262s from KG 51:

• The tips of the nose and fin are painted in the staffel colour and a contrasting bounding line of white or black.
• The style of the einheitkennzeichen of small (~20 cm high) geschwader and staffel characters.
• The aircraft kennung letter is large and outlined in a contrasting colour.
• The last two characters of the einheitkennzeichen “DA” are painted on the nose wheel door.
• The position of all these characters on the fuselage and nose wheel door.

Furthermore, KG 51’s Stab and I. Gruppe were stationed at Giebelstadt over the 20-30 March 1945 period. Per Dan O’Connell’s opus: “It was found damaged by the USA 12 Armored Division, 7th Army and extensively photographed by the 798th Signal Corps at Giebelstadt on 4 April 1945.” So there is an association with KG 51 and the location of “F1+DA”.

I should note that the alpha-numeric Einheitkennzeichen for other units like KG 76 (Ar 234s) and KG(J) 54 are completely different from KG 51. While their geschwader code was similarly small in size, the aircraft kennung was in a plain colour (Staffel) or black, and the kennung and staffel letters the same large size but smaller than KG 51 used. For KG(J) 54 (and KG(J) 6) their Me 262s renerally (but not always) had their nose tips painted in the gruppe and/or staffel colours, and sometimes the aircraft kennung letter painted on the nose wheel door. In mid-March 1945 KG(J) 54 and 6 switched to the single numeric kennung which is a different story.

BTW Nick, the “F1” marking is documented in the caption of a photograph that I think I posted some time ago. I find it improbable that the correspondent saw “9K” and wrote “F1”.

Nick and Jim, I can send you both the photo via email and one of you can post if you wish.

Best,

David

Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1180

Hi David,

Thank you so much for this picture.

As an aside, I just realized that the "bombs" to me appear to be Walter 109-500 R-Gerät RATO units used by Ar 234s, not Me 262s. On consulting Jan Horn, KG 76 Die Chronik ..., (2019) there is only one reference to Ar 234s of KG 76 at Giebelstadt on p. 274:

Vermutlich, um die nur leicht beschädigten und reparierten Ar 234 von Neuburg über Giebelstadt nach Achmer zurück zu bringen, sendet Maj. Polletin am 27. März 1945 um 22.30 Uhr das folgende Telex an das Einsatzkommando nach Neuburg:
"Die Landung in Giebelstadt wird für Zinn (Ar 234) mit Einschränkungen genehmigt. Unbedingt auf der Start- und Landebahn aufsetz. Auf Bombentrichter achten."

This date neatly coincides with yours.

best regards,

Jim