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Thanks Guys
....and Bertrand glad one of us could think outside the box :o Checked all combinations.... I thought...., but of course not Q. Dohhh :) Cheers Stig |
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Any idea which D.520 this was?? Cheers Stig |
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#2324/2325 : D.520 n°02 ; Orléans-Bricy 11/03/1940
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So it was No 02 after all. I actually thought it was a production aircraft.... Thanks a lot for the confirmation!!! Cheers Stig |
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Thanks Ed
-2338_1 : D.520 n° 171 of GC III/3 at Romilly-sur-Seine |
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Cheers Stig |
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2338 -3 is Battle P2200/GB-K of 105 Sqn, which force-landed on 10 May 40 (crew POW). A summary is here: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/226231
2338 -4 is Battle L5540/JN-C of 150 Sqn, which was also lost on 10 May 40 (not 14 May 40 as per the seller - maybe the photo was taken on this date?). The crew was again taken POW. Summary here: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/226256 |
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You're welcome Bertrand. And thank you, Andy.
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And I totally agree with the seller, 100% RAF's latest Super Fighter......:rolleyes: The odd thing with it, is that there are plenty of photos showing it captured more or less intact (hit by AA-fire), and also plenty of it showing it completely wrecked by fire. Anyone who can talk me through what happened? Was there a time set device onboard blowing it up or did the Germans set fire to it perhaps by accident? Aircraft itself would have been too valuable in an almost undamaged condition. Cheers Stig |
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answer is maybe there : http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?p=105780 " On the 23rd May, some of the Squadron's SM.73P's and civil airliners had landed at Merville, in France, to deliver stores, but while there the airfield was strafed by a formation of Bf-109's, destroying an Ensign and damaging an SM.73P. When the remainder of these aircraft flew back to Britain, they were fired on near Calais and an SM.73P was lost. " Looks like this DC-3 was damaged - during this period probably this plane was dammaged by straffed Bf 109 and part of the crew was killed. Then the was left on the airfield (but not fired - we have more similar cases from BoF), because we have a lot of photos of intact plane with germans. Then somebody burn the plane, or maybe was straffed again ....... Faenor |
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Thanks Faenor :)
Yes there are more than one report with what happened to this one. AA-fire? Bf 109s? Cornwell in his BofF does not even mention the incident at all. Sources doesn't even agree which unit the aircraft was impressed with, Air Britain (DC-3 volume) says 24 Sq while Simon Parry (Dunkirk volume) says 271 Sq! Parry is more elaborate and state "Hit by Flak in port wing near Calais and crash landed at Arques" Then the oddities begin. a) Aircraft as shown by plenty of photos did not crash, it made, if not a perfect, but still a very good landing. b) Captain John M H Hoare was killed in the crash. I can't see how anyone can get killed during such a landing as this. The field chosen seems almost endless and the aircraft is very much intact. If Hoare was killed he must have been hit by AA-fire. c) Why was the aircraft destroyed? Possibly for PR purposes (as suggested by you in a mail to me), but maybe the aircraft ended up in a sort of no-mans land? Sgt Raymond Chartier was shot dead trying to escape to Allied lines, so they cannot have been too far away. Two others onboard were made POWs by German troops, meaning they certainly were closer. Now if that territory was contested, maybe someone decided to burn the plane just to be on the safe side so to speak. As always your opinions are very much appreciated :) Cheers Stig |
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Hi all,
photos for discussion about DC-3 OO-AUI there: http://modelari.org/viewtopic.php?t=2857 Faenor |
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Stig,
trying to answer your questions based on the earlier discussions on this case. As said several transport aircraft left (about 7) left for Merville, where they all landed but during unloading were strafed by Bf109s. AW27 Ensign "Elysian" G-ADSZ was destroyed on the ground (many pictures) DC-3 OO-AUI was immobilised, I'll come back to this one below SM73 OO-AGZ was damaged and could not take off SM73 OO-AGS took off with the other Ensigns for the return flight but was hit approaching Calais and crashed at Arques. The OO-AUI stayed virtually undamaged at Merville. How the pilot Hoare was killed is unclear, possibly in the strafing and was this the reason the aircraft stayed on the ground. (By the way, first time I see this name in the context of this story). On the other hand, sgt Chartier is also mentioned to be a pilot on this flight. He was killed trying to reach allied lines. But he is also mentioned as being part of the OO-AGS crew, so there might be confusion. (He might have been the pilot of the OO-AGZ and returned with the SM73 of his fellow Belgian pilot Victor Moreau). The flight to Merville was to evacuate the last RAF crews, and indeed the airfield was quickly overrun by the Germans, as witnessed by the pictures of them around the undamaged aircraft. As discussed earlier, it is highly unlikely the Germans have destroyed the DC-3, they were very eager to capture flyable aircraft. Which leaves two plausible options: 1. sabotage, although I personally think this unlikely at this stage of the war. 2. strafing/bombing by RAF or French aircraft in the following days, after the withdrawal to the Dunkerque perimeter. From then it was clear that every airfield north of the Somme was now in German hands and a big DC3 was not easy to be overlooked. All in all a pretty desperate operation, with 4 large aircraft out of 7 lost. Cheers, Pieter |
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2350 -10 is Hampden P4324/QR-P of 61 Sqn, which force-landed in the Netherlands on the night of 26/27 Aug 40 (crew POW). A summary is here: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/53814
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Thanks Pieter
Valuable information indeed. So you are confident the aircraft was at Merville all the time, and it was OO-AGS which was hit by Flak and crashed at Arques? Works for me, but do you mind telling us your source(s) for that? It certainly differs from Parry :) I am aware of the evacuation flights as such, but sources have a tendency to differ, such as who was onboard which aircraft and so on. I agree that sabotage seems a bit unlikely for its demise. Had the Allies destroyed it by, let's say bombing and/or strafing surely some report would have remained about that? Perhaps one should just leave it there and just classify it as a sort of "fog-of-the-war" type of incident.... Cheers Stig |
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Thanks Ed.
#3 is the well-photographed P9317/ZD-A of 222 Sqn, which was shot down on 1 June 1940, force-landing near Le Touquet (pilot POW). It was later flown by the Luftwaffe. #7 is Whirlwind SF-H of 137 Sqn. Over the years there has been considerable debate over the identity of this aircraft, with both P7005 (lost 2 Mar 43) and P7095 (lost 23 Jan 43) quoted. |
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You're welcome Andy.
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https://www.ebay.de/itm/314132959455...Bk9SR4rI2aThYA
G-ADSZ Date: Thursday 23 May 1940 Type: Armstrong Whitworth AW.27 Ensign I Operator: British Overseas Airways Corporation - BOAC Registration: G-ADSZ MSN: AW.1164 First flight: 1935 Crew: Fatalities: / Occupants: Passengers: Fatalities: / Occupants: Total: Fatalities: / Occupants: Aircraft damage: Damaged beyond repair Location: Merville Airport (HZB) ( France) Phase: Approach (APR) Nature: International Scheduled Passenger Departure airport: ? Destination airport: ? Narrative: Aircraft was on an international scheduled flight when over France, it was fired by German fighter. Crew diverted to Merville-Calonne Airport but on final approach, aircraft stalled and crashed in flames in a field. Occupant fate unknown. Ref: aviation-safety.net |
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Alex
Some of what safety.net says cannot be correct. I highly doubt it was a commercial flight from France to England. Aircraft was part of a nine airliner aircraft formation being escorted by a composite squadron, 229/253, and five of these airliners were Ensigns. All these aircraft must have been requisitioned by the RAF! Don't know if G-ADSZ had been hit by Bf 109s before landing at Merville, but it certainly was strafed after landing, with the result of it being DBF. During the morning in question, Luftwaffe made only two claims which seems relevant to this fleet. both being for twin-engined low wing aircraft and NW of Boulogne, which is in the right area at least. I would say one of them was OO-AGS and the other possibly OO-AUI which returned to Merville. It is of course entirely possible the two claims refer to one and the same aircraft! Safety.net is the only source claiming the Ensign crashed upon landing which sounds a bit strange. Especially since Pieter H says seven aircraft actually landed at Merville. Anyone who can confirm either way? Cheers Stig |
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