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Re: P-38 crash in Drvar, Bosnia, in September 1944.
Hello Roland,
Confirm Rainer's serial numbers. King was a 3strd 82nd loss on that day November 7th 1944. MACR 9695 serial number 44-24392, King evaded. In answer to how many serial numbers in the 44-23059 44-23208 that are NOT in the JB's P-38J-15-LO List. I counted 110. They were- 44-23 O59;60;61;62;63;64;66;67;68;69;70;71;72. 74 to 86; 88 to 113. ; 115 ;117;118; 120; 121;123;126 to 143; 145;146; 148 to 150; 152; 154; 155; 157; 158; 163; 165;166. 170; 176; 178; 179; 182; 184 to 186; 190; 191; 193 to 195. 197 to 199; 202; 203; 206 to 208. Alex |
Re: P-38 crash in Drvar, Bosnia, in September 1944.
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Sorry for mistake in first answer - I had problems with search in Excel, he was killed and buried in Yugoslavia, and later transferred. |
Re: P-38 crash in Drvar, Bosnia, in September 1944.
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Soviets attacked with planes, and two P-38s and some Yaks were shot down before they noticed markings and broke off. They were buried near airfield, but it seems their graves were forgotten since they are still missing. King was in another group which didn't get lost, he was shot by german AA, and evaded as mentioned. I have NMR of this mission, and King's E&E. I would be grateful for their MACRs, since they are not available on Fold3. |
Re: P-38 crash in Drvar, Bosnia, in September 1944.
Alex, do you have MACR numbers for any of the 111 serial numbers you mentioned above?
It is possible that for the 150 planes from 44-23059 to 44-23208 apparently the final fates are are only know for 39 of them? Wouldn't the aircraft history cards still exist? |
Re: P-38 crash in Drvar, Bosnia, in September 1944.
I've made an analysis of the 149 aircraft of this P-38J-15-LO batch (44-23059 to 44-23208), for 69 of them there is a MACR, accident report or are otherwise accounted for (known post-war service, conversations, etc.).
Found only two MACR from that range that are not mentioned by Baugher: MACR 15178 for 44-23066 that was lost in the PTO on 7 Oct 1944 MACR 13468 for 44-23082 that was lost in the Canal Zone on 30 Mar 1945 Only 19 of these 149 P-38s are known to have been lost or crashed in the MTO:
Interesting is that 16 of them are from the same range of 25 aircraft between serial 44-23181 and 44-23205 and the other three are also close together, which indicates that the allocation of aircraft to a certain theatre of operation was apparently made directly from the production line. This is also confirmed by the 25 aircraft between serial 44-23156 and 44-23180 that were apparently sent to the P-38 equipped FGs based in the UK. So it is possible that none of the 86 aircraft between 44-23059 and 44-23144 were allocated to the ETO or MTO, because all known crashes and losses in this range happened in the US, Canal Zone or PTO. However, there is a noticable gap of 18 aircraft between 44-23126 and 44-23143 that aren't listed as crashed or lost at all. |
Re: P-38 crash in Drvar, Bosnia, in September 1944.
Hello Rainer,
Great result. So as I was only asked to provide the aircraft numbers that did not result in an Macr in Fold3 I did not go further. From the 110 that I found it looks like only 6 can now be deleted as they were in accidents, which brings the number down to 104. Then there are at least 2 that you found had Macr, which brings my number down to 102. I will look again at these. From looking I find the following 19 a/c can be deleted from my 102. 44-23 068; 072; 081; 090; 094; 100; 101; 103; 107; 109; 118; 120; 152; 163; 166; 176; 206; 207; 208. This brings my total numbers down to 83 a/c. Have a good day Alex |
Re: P-38 crash in Drvar, Bosnia, in September 1944.
Rainer, good work.
I went ahead and created a spreadsheet for P-38s in that range, looking at the MACRs for the serial numbers or the engines and the guns. Note: Unknown X-55 has 50 cal guns 1190815, 1190382 and 1294465 X-55 has one engine serial number at A-047489. X-55 had 20mm as 120206 Just comparing some serial number ranges: Looking a the MACR serial numbers and trying to find any that have "close" numbers, it turns out that 44-23144 (which was in the 459th) had engines A-047609 and A-047216 and 50 cal numbers 1190346, 1190353 44-23147 had engines A-047741 and A-047203 and guns 1190821 and 1190385. 44-23188 had engines A-049627 and A-049421 (not so "close") but had guns 1190304 and 1190333. This "might" suggest that the unknown plane was somewhere close to those. The 11908xx and 11903xx show up individually in several other planes in your range, but it appears that the only multiple "close" matches occur in those above. |
Re: P-38 crash in Drvar, Bosnia, in September 1944.
Hello,
From the 83 serial numbers only one came good in Fold3. 44-23085 - made 16449. So 82 unknowns. Question how were the replacement aircraft delivered in theAtlantic and Pacific war areas, were they flown over miles of ocean or sent as ships cargo. If by ship is it possible that a ship with a batch of P38's was sunk? This might explain the run of numbers numbers, it would be known the ship had sunk with its cargo so there would not be any macr's(no pilots). Alex |
Re: P-38 crash in Drvar, Bosnia, in September 1944.
I have started on a different approach. There is a way to pull from the abmc.gov site (by squadron) all the MIAs from the each of the 3 fighter groups into spreadsheets. I have completed the 1st FG and am working on the 14th and 82nd.
In each case, I am trying to determine if there is a MACR for the missing man or enough info elsewhere to rule the man "out". For the 1st FG, I think all the 52 men listed as missing can be ruled out. For the 14th FG I have come up with one name so far. Lawrence D Wells. http://abmc.gov/node/549730#.V6nBfVQrJ1Y His FOD date is September 12, 1945 which "may" mean a loss date of September 11, 1944. I cannot find a MACR for him or any information about him for that matter. Anyone know anything about Wells? He is listed on the dpaa list here with a loss location of "Italy", but no other info. http://www.dpaa.mil/Portals/85/Docum...air_force.html He does not seem to be on any accident report either. |
Re: P-38 crash in Drvar, Bosnia, in September 1944.
Hello Roland,
O-750741, Wells, Lawrence D, P38F 41-7633 01/03/1944 Alex MACR 1695 |
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