Re: Me 262 in Italy - photo evidence
 

The photo of the tail clearly shows "11053" and the GQM gives "11053", so why can't it be "11053" (of course with the sixth digit unknown)?

If someone has the book by Jan Horn I would be interested in the source that is given there for the loss of Lt. Strate's Me 262 on February 6.
So far I have never come across another Me 262 loss in the Landshut area besides 11053x.

As a side note: The April 26, 1945 JV 44 listing mentions Me 262 111754 as "Rückführ-Flugzeug Landshut-Industrie", whatever that means.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Re: Me 262 in Italy - photo evidence
 

Stig,

If it helps, despite Horn referring to Werk-Nr. 170 053 as a "A-1a" in his text p. 284 and p. 296, on p.286 of Das Flurschaden-Geschwader he writes:

"Ein Fernschreiben der I./KG 51 am 31. März um 13:00 Uhr an den IT Stab/KG 51 besagt:
'1.) Die Me 262 A-2a (Rote 1: Werk-Nr. 170 053) startet um 05:05 Uhr des 31. März nach Unterschlauersbach über Burg.
2.) Die Me 262 (Werk-Nr. 170 090), Ofw. Zeppenfeld und die Werk-Nr. 500 050, Ofw. Wessel, landeten in Rheinselen. Sie übergaben die Werk-Nr. 170 090 und 500 050 an das NAGr. 6.'"

I hope this helps,

Jim

p.s Daniel,

Horn, p. 284, simply refers to the event as occurring "westlich Landshut" without giving a source, but in the index of losses, p. 362, gives Strate as the pilot involved on 6 February again without sources.

Re: Me 262 in Italy - photo evidence
 

Thanks Nick for checking

Daniel
I am not (as far as I know) privy to any "clear" photo of the incident as such.
Can you either post this photo or refer to where you have seen it?

Obviously Jan Horn does not agree with me.
I pulled Jan's book from the shelf and at least I read page 284 as him saying
WNr 170053 rote 1 and a Me 262 A-1a since he refers to this machine as damaged west of Landshut 6 Feb 1945.
However I still think he is wrong with regard to the actual WNr damaged/written off on that date. It is his interpretation no doubt of WNr 11053.
Looking at page 296 (under 11 April) I cannot see any WNr 170090, I only read
Lt Strate as taking off in WNr 170053 which corresponds pretty exactly with what
Nick has given from his eminent diggings in British archives (thanks agan Nick!!)

Just like everyone else Jan is perfectly entitled to his interpretation (he writes excellent books - unfortunately in German...:o), but in this case my bet is still on WNr 110530.

So Daniel
Over to you!

Cheers
Stig

Re: Me 262 in Italy - photo evidence
 

It means "Return aircraft, Landshut- Industry" but I don't understand whether Landshut has recalled it from JV 44 or the other way round. "Industrie" is usually a civilian factory or repair facility rather than (say) a Luftwaffe depot. However, this document from 2 May 1945 says that with JV 44 "also on the aerodrome are 17 returned aircraft" including one Me 262 from Landshut (Industrie).

I have just one other mention of Ltn. Strate:

CX/MSS/R 499(A),16
From KEBAD ((1 KG.)) 51, Major Brucker GIGAO ((GAF Station Command)) DETMOLD, orderly room, dated 20/3:- Request information to Ltn. Strate at Esch. His a/c is ready.

And this reference to a transfer to Unterschlauersbach on 31 March:

CX/MSS/T205/29
1110818 [sic] still serviceable with pilot with 6./KG 51 on 30 March 1945. Take off after restoration of runway probably on 31/3 to Unterschlauersbach.

Re: Me 262 in Italy - photo evidence
 

Jim,
Thank you! It would have been interesting to know how Jan Horn came to the conclusion that Lt. Strate was the pilot on February 6.

Stig,
See http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...45190&page=138 and the following page.
Why 110530? What about 110531 to 110539?

Nick,
Thank you for your explanation and the link! My interpretation always was that there was a damaged Me 262 at Landshut (i.e. Ergolding airfield) that had to be returned to the industry for repair (in connection to the bellylanded Me 262 11053x of course).
The problem is that Landshut had nothing to do with Me 262 production or repair. All other locations given in paragraph "Rückführ-Flugzeuge" were connected somehow to the Me 262 (Lechfeld, Straubing, Memmingen, Landau).
One of the four Me 262 listed as "Rückführ-Flugzeug Memmingen-Industrie" is Werknummer 500226. Robert Forsyth wrote about that plane: "Me 262A‐1a Wk‐Nr 500226 was operated briefly by the Industrieschutzschwarm Memmingen (Memmingen test facility defense flight) before being transferred to JG 7 in February 1945..."
Wouldn't Landsberg make more sense than Landshut?

Kind regards,
Daniel

Re: Me 262 in Italy - photo evidence
 

Another photo for everyone's consideration. I see that older posts had photos which are now missing.

https://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=29456

Re: Me 262 in Italy - photo evidence
 

It was Me 262A-2a, W.Nr.110766, Red 1, JV 44 (ex KG 51 machine), Innsbruck-Hötting, when it was standing in the cca. middle of the airfield. The Americans later moved its to the edge of the airfield, close to the road

Better photo
https://i.imgur.com/fvvX6CS.jpg

Re: Me 262 in Italy - photo evidence
 

Well Daniel

For the simple reason that nothing what our experts has written about 110531 and 110539 fits the "bill" so to speak.
110531 was damaged 30% at Lechfeldt 5 Feb 1945
110539 destroyed 28 Feb 1945 when strafed at Giebelstadt

Also thanks for showing the photo. Indeed 11053 is visible meaning there must be a final digit missing and not anything in between.

Cheers
Stig