Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)
 

Correction in Post# 49: I listed Brendel as in 2./JG 52 when it should be 2./JG 51.

On the 10 Jul 1943 the 133 IAP was involved in a dogfight with JG 51 and JG 54. I am not going into the entire battle as I'm still hoping for an answer on my thread concerning "12/JG 51 10 July 1943". But here is a part of it from what I have been able to determine which is not an actual victory.
Hptm. Diethelm von Eichel-Streiber Stabsstaffel/JG 51 MiG-3 (20) 13:00 PlQu 35 Ost/63556, NE Ponyri
Obfw. Hans Pfahler 12/JG 51 MiG-3 (30) 13:03 35 Ost/63594
Oblt. Karl-Heinz Weber 7./JG 51 MiG-1 (57) 13:05 35 Ost/63724

No actual aircraft shot down but the Yak-7B flown by Lt. U.A. Maminym did leave heavily damaged and returned to his airfield.

Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)
 

Hi Michael,

I take it this info updates

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=38633

which attributed his loss to Rudolf Meyer of 9/JG 51 at 1315, PQ 63549 @ 200m

Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)
 

Nick,
Yes, to some extent. Pfaher as we know did not file that victory report that day as he was listed as MIA, so he can't be entirely at fault for the over claim. There were actually four Soviet victories claimed in that battle but so far I can not determine if the other 12/JG 51 loss was Pfaher's wingman or another loss during the day. Lt. Novikov's report is the only version of this fight but seems to be accurate to some extent. The change in looking at it is that in Tony Woods list Oskar Romm shot down a LaGG-3 and in Prien's JFV 12/I he is listed with shooting down a La-5 which is a difference in aircraft size (Of course pilots on both sides made mistakes in that field).

Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)
 

Nick,
In Lt. Novikov's report he stated he couldn't find the fighters he came to aid from the 233 IAP and in the list of the 16 VA there is no mention of losses from this unit on this day but I now have two MIA that I found from this battle from that unit which might change everything. Will have to do some more digging. Also St. Lt. Vinogradov of the 233 IAP seems to have made his 1st and 2nd victories over Fw 190s at Ponyri-2 on checking in Mikhail Bykov's book.

Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)
 

Hi Michael,

You may have answered this before, but what is the title of Bykov's book and is it yet available in English?

Thanks also for the confirmation in your other two posts.

Nick

Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)
 

Until I refigure the mess for the 10 Jul 43 here is two others for 1942.

25 Jan 1942
DB-3F (#180526) 98 DBAP Lt. Vasiliy Ivanovich Slyunkin (KIA)
DB-3F 98 DBAP St. Lt. N.P. Zhugan

6./JG 51 Fw. Richard Quante DB-# (21) 11:20
6./JG 51 Lt. Horst Wunderlich DB-3 (2) 11:25

Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)
 

Well there's a trap for young players:
www.allaces.ru gives the impression that the crew of Vasily Ivanovich Slyunkin belonged to 752 APDD.

In any case, among the crewmen lost were gunner St.Serz Alexey Petrovich Chepelev and navigator Ivan Mikhailovich Chissov

Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)
 

Slyunkin was listed in the 98 DBAP in two loss documents and was assigned as the pilot to DB-3F listed as shot down by a German fighter.

Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)
 

The most recent edition of Bykov's book is "Все асы Сталина 1936-1953" (All Stalin's aces 1936-1953).

I'm afraid, the book will not be available in English in any near future. However, you can buy an electronic version through on-line shops (f.e. https://play.google.com/store/books/...earch_viewport).

Try also to contact with author through his Livejournal page: http://owl-99.livejournal.com/

Regards,
Maksim

Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)
 

Hi Maxim,

Thanks for the info.

Nick