Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

Hi,

My friend Philippe Couderchon told me that in the book "Junkers 88 et 188 français" by Pierre Dumollard, Avia Éditions there is a plan of Villacoublay A/F.

Note that page 7 there is an aerial view of jan.1944 (USAF credit)

We can definitively confirm that the photo taken on this airfield but not to tell if it is before or after summer 1940.

Bertrand

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

Hello all,

Thanx for all your very helpful suggestions and photos. Göran Larsson just sent me a photo from P. 53 of "Avions Hors Serie 24, La Débacle de mai-juin 1940." It shows exactly this scene only taken further down the runway closer to the larger tower. In the distance on my photo, it's now clear that all the indistinct images farther down the field are French a/c wreck and debris. That whole end of the runway is covered with them. There is a significant aircraft wreckage dump there. So this answers my qualms about no French wrecks--there were plenty of them, just not near the a/c in my photos. This also suggests that there was time to clear off the airfield area around the photo site, and move all the French wrecks down to a dump site at the far end of the field.

The clincher is that this new photo also shows the wingtip of Bf110 "White G" that has the distinctive top wing-cross style used only by LG 1 during the WC, and early BoB. This a/c was L1+GH, for which I have several other photos, including one which matches these wingtip markings.

I think that Gerhard's (Merlin) suggestion that L1+XB (with the Adj wingtip L1+YB) was there for a commander's conference for V. Fliegerkorps units. To me this does date this at least to late-June, 1940, and possibly sometime during the early Battle of Britain period. This explains why Villacoublay is not listed as one of the places V.(Z)/LG1 was based during this period.

My final task which might allow me to date this photo precisely involves taking the Horst Liensberger FBs that I have for this period and see if I can find a sortie to Villacoublay. That will tell me if this is late or end FC or early BoB.

Thanx again for all the help. I'll let you know what story the FBs tell.

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

Hello,

One last question, the "Avions Hors Seies" photo is captioned "Velizy-Villacoublay." I presume this means that this was photographed on Velizy Airfield, Villacoublay, France and that there was more than one airfield there. Is that correct? Or was Velizy just the name used for the only airfield at Villacoublay?

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

Hi Larry,

Not much time left to put me in ...
But Dumollard's book was in my mind as obvious and first source ... though being in China ... far to be reachable :)
...
As for "Vélizy-Villacoublay"; It's actual name though I don't know if it was in use during the 40s - I'm quite sure it wasn't.
But maybe a clue to differenciate Villacoublay and Villacoublay-Nord in use at that time. (Like Buc, Toussus and so on in this "crowded" area)

Note that "Le Musée de l'Air" had its "reserves" down there during years, I'll be surprised if you don't find answers with them.

Regards, Franck.

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

Villacoublay-Nord and Villacoublay-Sud were name introduced and used only by the Germans. Both are part of Base Aérienne 102 "René DORME" which is Vélizy-Villacoublay (all airfield in France, even recent ones, have two names like that, so if you see a Sud or a Nord it's a pure german name)

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

Hello,

So would the correct designation in English be "Vélizy-Villacoublay Airfield, France," or "Vélizy Airfield, Villacoublay, France?"

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

BA 107 Villacoublay (CEMA) (Centre d'Essais du Matériel Aérien)

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

The Wn is known ??

Rémi

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

BA 107 is a designation of the Armée de l'Air so it would be wrong to use it while in german hands. "Vélizy-Villacoublay Airfield, France," seems the best but everybody will understand if you only write "Villacoublay Airfield" (in contrary to write only "Vélizy Airfield")

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

No Vélizy here : http://www.ww2.dk/misc/ob13840.htm
V. Fliegerkorps in Villacoublay
Stab/KG55 Villacoublay Ob Stoeckl He 111P
III./KG55 Villacoublay Maj Schemmell He 111P
4.(F)/121 Villacoublay Hptm Kerber Ju 88A

Nor here : http://8thafhs.com/search.php
Villacoublay (25 results)
Vélizy or Velizy (0 results)

Villacoublay airfield is pre-WW1
Vélizy became Vélizy-Villacoublay just pre-WW2 because of the notoriety of the nearby airfield at Villacoublay.
The use of "Vélizy-Villacoublay" for the airfield is post-WW2.

P.S. In Ch.1 of Alarm in Westen (Alerte à l'ouest) Willi Heilmann posted to III./JG 54 circa June 1944, try to land at Villacoublay.

P.P.S. on 13 Aug 1940 V.(Z)/LG1 was subordinate to VIII. Fliegerkorps, but from when ?

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

There where two distinctly separate airfields in Villacoublay: "Villacoublay" south of the N12 road (also known as Villacoublay Süd by the Germans); this is the one where the original photo was taken.
The second airfield was situated on the North of the road and was known as the Villacoublay-Morane airfield. It was initially a privately owned airfield, and the location of the Morane Saulnier flying school.
Villacoublay-Morane (known as Villacoublay Nord) was used by the Germans especially in 1943 (JG105) and 1944 (JG26); for the very keen eye some of the dispersal taxways can still be guessed near the urbanization to the north of the field in the woods.
Look at the 1949 photos in Geoportail (those of Villacoublay Sud are no longer accessible due to military base status...yes, even in 1949!)

JVM

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

"Vélizy-Villacoublay Airfield, France," or "Vélizy Airfield, Villacoublay, France?"


City is Vélizy name of airfield Villacoublay, like Chicago-O'Hare , Braunschweig-Waggum, Oslo-Fprnebu ... Boulder-Municipal airport

Rémi

Re: Trying to verify Villacoublay as French Airfield where this photo was taken
 

Hello,

Thanx to all who have helped sort this all out. Your efforts are appreciated.

Remi,

You got to the heart of my problem, and I'll refer to this AF from now on as Villacoublay Airfield, Vélizy, France, which is the system that I use on my profiles and photo captions.

You earlier asked about the W.Nr. on this a/c. We've enlarged the W.Nr. and one of our key German experts (Merlin on this board) thinks that it is 1349, "which would indicate a Bf 110C-1 from the second Augsburg batch, manufactured during June 1939." However, this is very hard to read, and some think that this is a C-2, rather than a C-1. So there is still room for discussion here.

This is not the a/c in which Hptm Horst Liensberger, the Gr Kdr, was shot down on 27 Sept 1940, which was W.Nr.3560. We're trying to do profiles of both a/c. The problem with doing the latter is that we have only the intact tail to work from, with four cocardes, and the rest is wreckage. We have to reconstruct the rest from the known camouflage patterns used on a/c in that serial number batch, and the white nose carried by unit aircraft during Sept., 1940. If, by chance, anyone has a photo of W.Nr. 3560 before it crashed, this would be a big help to us.

Seeking full name of BF for Ofw Leo Schuhmacher of 2./ZG76
 

Hello,

For profile purposes I need the first name of Uffz Schulte, the BF on crew of 2./ZG76 Bf110 pilot Ofw Leo Schuhmacher circa mid-August, 1940. Does anyone have this?

Seeking ID of German a/c reported crashed in the Ardennes area of France on 30 April 1940
 

Hello,

In our efforts to acquire photos to document every German and Allied a/c shot down during the Phoney War/Sitzkrieg/drole de guerre, our EoE team recently acquired these scans from items offered on a French auction site. This series, showing burning wreckage, is captioned as a German plane crashed in the Ardennes on April 30, 1940 This would be a Phoney War crash, but it just doesn't seem to match any German loss on April 30th or near that time. I'm not even sure that it matches the description of the Bloch 174 from the FAF that crashed that day. Since the wreckage is still smoking you would think that the date would be reliable, and not something that happened previously. I note, however, that one of the photo backs may have 20-4-40 written on the back, with a possible location. Could we be interpreting the handwriting incorrectly and looking on the wrong day? There were Luftwaffe a/c shot down on the 20th that could be our crash. Is anyone familiar with this crash site and incident, perhaps from other photos that exist from it?

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-Cwn...-CwnS5j5-L.jpg

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-PKK...-PKKppPM-L.jpg

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-ppj...-ppjDgXg-L.jpg

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-W5j...-W5jJZqD-L.jpg

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-jx4...-jx4hdss-L.jpg

At about the same time we acquired this photo, which may not be related to the photos above, but could be. Is this crash familiar to anyone? It is probably also a Phoney War crash in France.

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-5nP...-5nPnNWG-L.jpg

I know that these "smoking wreckage" photos are very difficult to ID precisely, but I'm hoping that other photos exist with accurate captions, or someone has found French unit records that ID this incident.

Once again, I'd like to appeal to anyone who has photos of Allied or German crashes lost during the Phoney War to make me aware of them. We have all the most well known aircraft photos, but there are bound to be others that are from personal, local or regional sources that we don't have or know about.

Any help would be appreciated.

Re: Seeking ID of German a/c reported crashed in the Ardennes area of France on 30 April 1940
 

Larry,
I have 2 crashes on 40-04-20
Lt. Helmut Hoch KIA 2./JG 54 Crashed at Belfort, buried in Andilly
Lt. Fritz Sievers KIA 7./JG 53 Crashed at Thionville, buried in Niederbronn-les-Bains
Frans A

Re: Seeking ID of German a/c reported crashed in the Ardennes area of France on 30 April 1940
 

Franz,

I have those same two Bf109 losses on 20.04.40. However, I don't know if these crash locations are in the Ardennes, or if the handwriting really says 20 or 30 April.

Can anyone help clarify this?

Re: Seeking ID of German a/c reported crashed in the Ardennes area of France on 30 April 1940
 

@ Larry,

for my eyes it reads as 30.

Best Regards
Norbert

Re: Seeking ID of German a/c reported crashed in the Ardennes area of France on 30 April 1940
 

Hello,

Including direct emails I agree that this reads 30 April 1940. But if this is the case, how do we explain the lack of available candidates for German losses on that date? Could this be the Bloch 174 that crashed on that 30.04.40? Nothing else fits.

Seeking when Ofw Leo Schuhmacher first joined 2./ZG76 (1939 or 1940?)
 

Hello,

I'm trying to determine when Ofw Leo Schuhmacher first joined 2./ZG76. I know that he was the senior non-com pilot in the unit by the Norwegian Campaign (4/40), but did his service with the unit extend back to 09/39 and the beginning of the war ? When did he first join the unit?

Thanx,

Seeking ID of crashed & burned Bf110C of either 13 or 15.(Z)/LG1 during April or May, 1940
 

Hello,

Am trying to ID this crashed Bf110C:

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-2xZ...-2xZ876S-L.jpg

This is very likely one of the two losses below:

April 22, 1940

15.(Z)/LG1Messerschmitt Bf110C-1. Crashed into houses near Mannheim-Sandhofen, Germany, and burnt out following engine failure on maintenance test flight. (Ff) Oberlt Walter Clausen (Staffelkapitän) and mechanic killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.
Note: "Merlin" has this as L1+AL.


May 12, 1940

13.(Z)/LG1 Messerschmitt Bf110C. Lost control in vertical dive avoiding attacks from, S/Lt Boitelet and Sgt Tallent of GC I/5, also Sgt Guillaume of GC III/7, over Vouziers and hit trees at ‘Nugimont’, south of Blagny, France, at 7.15 a.m. FF Lt Hans Gaffal thrown from aircraft and captured with fractured skull, admitted to hospital in Ste-Menehould, BF Uffz Aloysius Dierkes also captured wounded – both later released. Aircraft L1+AH 100% write-off.


This a/c appears to have a white or yellow "A" on the top of the wing. The vegetation and markings clearly date this to the spring of 1940.


Does anyone have other photos of this crash that might help ID this photo? From this angle, there is no evidence of the houses that the 22.04.40 crash reportedly hit. However, it is hard to see how the pilot and BG of this a/c survived the crash, although both were injured. This photo was kindly provided by Chris Ehrengardt, who may know what the source of it was. If it was a French source, then it is probably the May 12 incident. If a German source, it could be either one.


Thanx for any assistance.

Seeking date & ID of 14.(Z)/LG1 Bf110C FL on French Beach circa 08.40
 

Hello,

One of our EoE members has acquired two photos L1+HK, a 14.(Z)/LG1 Bf110C that was being salvaged apparently after FL on a French beach during the Battle of Britain. This may possibly be around mid-August, 1940. It appears to have been dragged up on to a stone causeway to get it off the beach ahead of an advancing tide.

I want to do a color profile of this a/c for the EoE project if we can get other photos of this incident, and information that will help us firmly date it, hopefully with a crew.

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-nrT...-nrT34GK-L.jpg

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-zR4...-zR4DD72-L.jpg

Who can help?

Seeking ID for photos of Ju87B crashed near "Montherme" in the Ardennes, probably May, 1940
 

Hello,

I'm trying to ID this Ju87B crash, reported to be in the Monthrme area, in the Ardennes, probably early in the Western Campaign of May, 1940. Does anyone know this crash or have additional photos of the severed rear fuselage that would help ID the a/c codes?

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-QnC...-QnCp62f-L.jpg

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-xk5...-xk5zHDk-L.jpg

Any help would be appreciated.

Seeking photos of four V.(Z)/LG1 Bf110 crashes during the Western Campaign
 

Hello,

For the EoE Project, I'm looking for photos that document the crashes of these four V.(Z)/LG1 losses early in the Western Campaign in France. Can anyone help?

11 May 1940:

14.(Z)/LG1 Messerschmitt Bf110C. Badly damaged in attack by Lt Zerovnicky of GC I/8 during escort sortie over St-Mihiel. Caught fire during return flight, abandoned over Lenoncourt, and crashed at Cerville, France, 6.35 a.m. BF Uffz Willi Fabian killed. FF Lt Hans Leickhardt baled out and captured badly wounded – later released. Aircraft 100% write-off.

16 May 1940:

15.(Z)/LG1 Messerschmitt Bf110C. Shot down by Lt Bouysse of GC I/8 in combat over La Fère during escort for reconnaissance sortie and crashed west of Rogécourt 5.55 a.m. FF Lt Georg Schwarzer and BF Obergefr Fritz Petrich both killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.

17 May 1940:

14.(Z)/LG1 Messerschmitt Bf110C. Shot down in combat with Hurricanes of No.1 Squadron 10km west of Reims during escort for KG2 10.35 a.m. FF Uffz Friedrich Schmitt and BF Obergefr Heinz Schmidt both killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.

14.(Z)/LG1 Messerschmitt Bf110C. Shot down in combat with Hurricanes of No.1 Squadron 10km west of Reims during escort for KG2 and believed crashed at Rosnay 10.35 a.m. FF Oberlt Werner Methfessel (Staffelkapitän) and BF Uffz Heinz Resener both killed. Aircraft L1+LK 100% write-off.

Re: Seeking ID of German a/c reported crashed in the Ardennes area of France on 30 April 1940
 

Larry,
the text on the first and last pictures of the series clearly refer to "avion ennemie" and "avion boche", which - assuming thewriter was correct - indicate a German aircraft.

Regards, Pieter

Re: Seeking ID of German a/c reported crashed in the Ardennes area of France on 30 April 1940
 

Hello,

Thanx for your comments. The captions do clearly indicate the crash of a German plane, but there are really no suitable candidates around that time. Anybody got any ideas of what this could be? Obviously it must have been sometime earlier than April 30th.

Seeking photos of 4.(F)/121 Ju88A-1 7A+FM that force landed wheels up on RAF Oaklington, near Cambridge, England, on 19.09.40
 

Hello,

Can anyone provide photos of this aircraft? It turns out that we don't have copies of the photos of this a/c in the EoE photo DB, and this will likely be a color profile. At least three photos exist of the cockpit area taken while it was at the RAE for evaluation, and there are at least two other photos of it known while it was at Oaklington being readied for transport to Farnborough.

Here is the "G-Report" on this incident:

19 September 1940:
"Ju.88A/1. Crashed at OAKLINGTON, LONG STANTON Aerodrome, near CAMBRIDGE (Map reference L.88686) on 19.9.40 at 1600 hours. Identification markings 7A+FM (F black, outlined in white). Made by Junkers Werke, DESSAU. Acceptance date 7.8.40. Crest, an owl wearing spectacles perched on red pencil. Aircraft force landed and is little damaged. Port engine probably failed. A few .303 bullet holes in port engine and in cockpit. Engines Jumo 211. Armament 6 MG.15's. Standard armour plating fitted. Crew 4, prisoners. Three cameras fitted in bomb compartment in fuselage operated from bomb aimers position. No bomb sights and no bomb selector gear fitted. No external bomb racks or dive brakes. In usual position of bomb sight, 3 message tubes are fitted."

Any help would be appreciated.

Seeking photo of Bf110 wreckage from V.(Z)/LG1 losses on 27.09.40 over England
 

Hello,

This unit was nearly wiped out on this final raid over England on 27 Sept 1940. I have photos for the crashes/FL of L1+XB and L1+LL but I'm seeking to document photographically the wreckage of these four other losses that day, for which photos may exist:

"13.(Z)/LG1 Messerschmitt Bf110D-0 (3304). Engaged by fighters over Redhill during sortie to London and shot down in repeated attacks by S/L E.A. McNab and F/O B.D. Russell of No. 1 (RCAF) Squadron, and P/O C.F. Currant of No.605 Squadron. Dived into the ground behind ‘The Gale’ at Chelwood Gate in Ashdown Forest 9.40 a.m. Probably also that attacked by F/L J.M. Strickland and F/L J.E.J. Sing of No.213 Squadron. FF Fw Adolf Bruns and BF Gefr Franz Gröbl both killed. Aircraft L1+CH 100% write-off.
Originally buried in All Saints churchyard at Danehill, Adolf Bruns was repatriated to Germany for reburial postwar. Site excavated by the Wealden Aviation Archaeological Group in 1973. Remains of Daimler-Benz DB 601 engine recovered with manufacturer’s badge. Bullet-scarred propeller blade recovered in 1940 also donated by a local resident. Site investigated by the London Air Museum which excavated a propeller boss with one blade and a map box containing remains of four charred maps. Propeller blade and map box now in the Tangmere Military Aviation Museum.

14.(Z)/LG1 Messerschmitt Bf110C-2 (3548). Engaged by fighters over Redhill during sortie to London and believed that which exploded under attack by F/O A.F. Eckford of No.253 Squadron and crashed on Coppice Farm at Three Cups, Dallington, near Heathfield, 9.50 a.m. Possibly also that claimed by P/O A.G. Lewis of No.249 Squadron. FF Fw Friedrich Lindemann killed, BF Obergefr Artur Hübner baled out but parachute failed and killed. Aircraft L1+CK 100% write-off.
Site investigated by the Wealden Aviation Archaeological Group in 1975 and mainspar recovered from nearby ditch.

15.(Z)/LG1 Messerschmitt Bf110D-0 (3147). Intercepted by fighters during free-lance sortie over Redhill and attacked by many pilots including F/O P.W. Lochnan of No.1 (RCAF) Squadron, Sgt R.D. Hogg of No.17 Squadron, Sgt H.J.R. Barrow of No.213 Squadron, and P/O W.P. Hopkin of No.602 Squadron. Pursued at low level over Gatwick aerodrome where engaged by ground defences and crashed in flames and exploded 10.00 a.m. FF Oberlt Ulrich Fr von Gravenreuth (Staffelkapitän) and BF Fw Otto Reinhold both killed. Aircraft L1+BL 100% write-off.

15.(Z)/LG1 Messerschmitt Bf110C-2 (3849). Engaged by fighters during free-lance sortie over Redhill and starboard engine set alight and gunner killed in attacks by P/O D.C. Leary of No.17 Squadron, F/O W. Urbanowicz of No.303 Squadron, S/L H.A.V. Hogan of No.501 Squadron, and F/O P.P.C. Barthropp of No.602 Squadron. Abandoned aircraft crashed and burned out at Horham Manor Farm, near Horam, 9.50 a.m. Believed that also attacked by P/O W.B. Pattullo of No.46 Squadron. FF Uffz Hans Bechthold baled out and captured slightly wounded, BF Uffz Hans Koch killed. Aircraft L1+GL a write-off.
This was a 14 Staffel crew flying a 15 Staffel aircraft."

Re: Seeking date & ID of 14.(Z)/LG1 Bf110C FL on French Beach circa 08.40
 

Hello,

Still no resolution on this one, but a careful study of unit loss/damage reports for the Battle of Britain make this almost certainly an incident in July or probably no later than 13 August, during which time there were several possible incidents that could be this a/c. There is a very distinctive church in the background of the second photo, which may not have survived the war and the building of the Atlantic wall, but may provide the key clue to this location, perhaps from a contemporary postcard.

Any French church experts out there?

Re: Seeking SN of 88 SQ Fairey Battle RHoR abandoned in Hangar at Mourmelon AF, France, during May, 1940
 

Hello,

I have only just seen this post so apologies for the delay in replying. I have a photo of RH-L at Mourmelon and can confirm that the serial number is L5526.

Kevin

Re: Seeking date & ID of 14.(Z)/LG1 Bf110C FL on French Beach circa 08.40
 

Hi,

Note this a/c is NOT in Northern France but certainly in Normandy between Calvados and Cotentin. Any expert of Normandy coast ?

Bertrand

Need first name of Uffz ___ Otten, of 3./StG1 FL at Oronsko, Poland, on 25.09.39
 

Hello,

Does anyone have the first name of this pilot, or his gunner's name?

25 September 1939:

3./StG1 Junkers Ju87B. Belly-landed at Oronsko following attack on central Warsaw 12.15 p.m. FF Uffz[ ]Otten and gunner both unhurt. Aircraft damage state not recorded.


I believe that this a/c was coded A5+KL.

Seeking ID & other photos of this FL V(Z)/LG1 Bf110 circa 1940 WC or BoB; probably in France
 

Hello,

Can anyone provide further photos, perhaps showing codes L1+?? of this FL Bf110. Can anyone ID this incident, probably in France during the WC or the BoB of 1940? V.(Z)/LG1 became a night fighter unit (NJG3) in early Oct., 1940, after being nearly wiped out during the Battle of Britain.

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-T2h...-T2hHmNL-L.jpg

Dating a funeral for a V.(Z)/LG1 Crew
 

Hello,

I'm trying to determine the date of a funeral at Mannheim AF, Germany, for a Bf110 crew from V.(Z)/LG1. There have been several photos of this sold on eBay, one with "Mannheim" written on the back. I want to profile one of two unit aircraft used in the funeral ceremony for their fallen comrades, Bf110C L1+FH. Based upon the number of personnel present, it would appear that a substantial number of personnel from at least one Staffel were present at the ceremony. The date of this funeral is important because it may put a date on the use of the light blue (65) over spray that had been applied to the fuselages of the two ceremonial aircraft.

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-5cP...-5cPHtHw-L.jpg

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-36s...-36shTBH-L.jpg

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-Jp5...-Jp5N6wh-L.jpg

There were only two crews that were lost which would most likely be associated with this loss:

22 April 1940: 15.(Z)/LG1Messerschmitt Bf110C-1. Crashed into houses near Mannheim-Sandhofen and burnt out following engine failure on maintenance test flight. (FF) Oberlt Walter Clausen (Staffelkapitän) and mechanic killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.


If this crew, the photos of the funeral could have been taken within a couple of days of the crash.



After the beginning of the WC on 10 May, V.(Z)/LG1 transferred from Mannheim to Wiesbaden on 13 May, and on to Ste Marie, Belgium, on 21 May.



A 13 Staffel crew was lost near the unit airfield at St Marie, Belgium, in L1+EH on 21 May 1940:

21 May 1940: 13.(Z)/LG1 Messerschmitt Bf110C (3524). Believed elevators jammed on take-off causing crash 1km south-west of Ste-Marie on escort sortie for KG2 attack on Persan-Beaumont airfield 6.00 p.m. FF Oberfw Alois Stegemann and BF Uffz Georg Solluch both killed. Aircraft L1+EH 100% write-off.



Unless the unit sent the remains of the Stegemann crew back to Mannheim for the funeral, and there were still enough unit personnel there to account for the photos, this would seem too late for the funeral in the photos. Other photos of the Stegemann crash confirm that L1+EH carried the light blue over spray seen on L1+FH, the first dated evidence for this camouflage in the unit. However, based upon several photos of unit a/c known to have been taken early in the WC, the 15 Staffel loss on 22 April seems too early for this camouflage change to have started. Several other photos show the unit's Bf110s in standard green upper surface camouflage during the beginning days of the WC.



So does anyone have any other photos which show this funeral at Mannheim, and especially that might show the tail of L1+FH, that is partly obscured in these photos? I'm hoping that additional photos might also provide either the date of the funeral or the names of the crewmen being buried, thus confirming a date for the new camouflage scheme.


Can anyone help?

Re: Seeking SN of 88 SQ Fairey Battle RHoR abandoned in Hangar at Mourmelon AF, France, during May, 1940
 

If not a 7 then a 2?

Re: Seeking SN of 88 SQ Fairey Battle RHoR abandoned in Hangar at Mourmelon AF, France, during May, 1940
 

Kevin,

Please see your PM file.

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

Re: Dating a funeral for a V.(Z)/LG1 Crew
 

Cannot be May 21, because both killed are buried at Lommel/Belgien, Block 2, Grab 307 and 368.

Matti

Re: Need first name of Uffz ___ Otten, of 3./StG1 FL at Oronsko, Poland, on 25.09.39
 

BTW
Larry,
may you know the reason of this force landing: A/A or engine damage but non combat reason?

regards,
mw

Re: Need first name of Uffz ___ Otten, of 3./StG1 FL at Oronsko, Poland, on 25.09.39
 

Mirek,

We have translated the I./StG1 KTB for the PC, but it doesn't specifically state the reason for this incident. It took place following a combat mission to downtown Warsaw, which was opposed by "strong flak of all calibers." Under remarks, one a/c of 2./StG1 had a "wing seriously damaged by flak," and then noting that Uffz Otten of 3./StG1 belly landed at the airfield." It doesn't give the reason for the belly landing, although it can be inferred that it was due to flak damage. I have nine views of this a/c in the EoE LW Loss/Damages DB, but none show any obvious flak damage. However, the belly landing did major damage to the engine and prop, as well as shearing away the main wheels. This will likely be one of our EoE color profile a/c for 3 Staffel representing the PC.

Still need to know the first name of this pilot, and the name of his gunner, if possible.

Re: Need first name of Uffz ___ Otten, of 3./StG1 FL at Oronsko, Poland, on 25.09.39
 

Larry,
you well know, that on 25.09. was dane against Warsaw very heavy fire attack by LW + field artilerry. Very terrible day for citisens and defenders, plenty killed (5000-10 000?) + many huge fires in whole Warsaw area. The attack totaly crushed the defence spirit and the city very soon capitulated after it (27.09. - the end).

During this day defenders claimed several victories, but no so many (1 Ju 87 - 100% loss of 11./LG 1 + 2xJu52). This Ju 87 matched to it, but not as a totaly destroyed and not specified the reason of damage (pilot's error or combat damage?).

Thanks for comments,
mw