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- - eBAy: Captured german planes (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=45190)

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

What type of aircraft is shown in post #2359? It is marked M1+DR (or DB) and the nose shape is unusual to me.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

#2359 shows the Do 217N NH+DB from Wetterflugstelle Frankfurt.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thank you Gerhard.

Regards,
Ed

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thanks Rudi.
Two Bf109s of III./JG53. The first being "Weisse 9" at Quotaifiya (LGO20).
Regards,
Franck.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Great finds Rudi! Any ideas where the photos with the burned-out He 111 Z (?M+KX) might have been taken?

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianK (Post 276113)

Great finds Rudi! Any ideas where the photos with the burned-out He 111 Z (?M+KX) might have been taken?

Christian

Since you write ?M+KX are you hesitant if the present listed STKZ (known by me) was TM+KX , ie WNr 2702, or not?

I know one He 111 Z was reportedly found at Hildesheim on 1.4.1945.
It was very tentatively said possibly to have been TM+KW, so no idea if this is actually the one or not.

BTW how do you know it is ?M+KX and not ?M+KY or even ?M+KW?
The last letter is very hidden and while the angles is more of an X (or Y) than a W, I am just curious....:)

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Hey Stig,
it might be a "W" as well as an "X" on the burnt-out fuselage, but from the angle of it, "X" seems much more likely to me. "Y" is also an option.

As I inspect these photos even more closely now I can also see what might very well be a "TM" next to the Balkenkreuz on the left fuselage. So yeah, I would guess that this plane is either "TM+KX" or "TM+KY". No idea about the Werknummern though..

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thanks Christian

For your info the Z WNr were 2695 - 2706
STKZ were in that order DS+EQ, DG+RU, TH+ZL to ZN, TM+KU, TM+KW to KY, DG+DY to DZ and DG+DV (at least that is what I have been told)

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thanks Stig - There were 2 prototypes - DS+EQ & DG+RU and 10 production aircraft. As you have 1 extra Stkz I think that DG+DV is a corruption of DG+DY.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Not sure I follow you Tom :confused:

I still get my STKZ to 12, but perhaps it is better to list the whole lot as this

2695 V1 DS+EQ
2696 V2 DG+RU
2697 Z-1 TH+ZL
2698 Z-1 TH+ZM
2699 Z-1 TH+ZN
2700 Z-1 TM+KU
2701 Z-1 TM+KW
2702 Z-1 TM+KX
2703 Z-1 TM+KY
2704 Z-1 DG+DY
2705 Z-1 DG+DZ
2706 Z-1 DG+DV

What do you got??

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Post 2381/2381/2383
Hi Stig - I appear to have misunderstood the construct of your Stkz/W/Nr list. I thought you were listing TM+KU to KY (this would also include TM+KV) - also leaving the last as being a little ambiguous " at least that is what I have been told " (DG+DV).
I 'got' the following excluding the prototypes:
2697 - TH+ZL
2698 - TH+ZM
2699 - TH+ZN
2700 - TM+KV
2701 - TM+KW
2702 - TM+KX
2703 - TM+KY
3704 - DG+DY
2705 - DG+DZ
2706 - DG+DV
However, I have always wondered why the last W/Nr/Stkz is out of sequence. Perhaps the original Stkz block DG+GV to GZ were assigned to He111H airframes before being re-built as He111Z-1s. Can anybody confirm the He111Z production W/Nrs with their respective Stkz from documents and photos?

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Post # 2384. I have read that in order to avoid falling intact into Allied hands, an explosive charge on a time delay was placed in the wing.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Willis (Post 276243)

That explains it Tom. Thanks for checking yours! Can anyone confirm if the STKZ for 2700 was TM+KV or TM+KU? Seems to be the only difference in our lists.

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Gents,

I read the V-kenn. as T4+KX or T4+AY. The second character is to me clearly a number 4 and this would make the machine`s unit Verband-Staffel Luftflotte 2. If memory serves, this and associated photos were taken in central France (Dijon). This unit operated in the Med from there and Istres, so the location fits.

Cheers,

David

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

David, it's definitely an "M", not a "4". There is an irritating light-colored horizontal bar on the right fuselage, but I think this is some feature of the airframe highlighted by the fire. You can also see the "M" in front of the Balkenkreuz on the left fuselage.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by David E. Brown (Post 276252)

David and ChristianK, thanks for your insights. IMHO, the whole set of photos might well have been taken on the same Fl.Pl. which is clearly in Germany, given what we can see from the buildings. Those utterly thrashed 109's do ring a bell, possibly Fürth, but I of course stand corrected.

It would be great to nail down the location for this He 111 Z and those other planes.

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Christian,

I agree that it is an "M" and not a "4". The white horizontal bar is a bit narrower that the width of the other letters though I wonder what it signified.

Best,

David

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thank you Rudi.
First two photos were already in auction times ago but stamp sized; maybe in an album.