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Thanks Rudi,
I suppose the Me 262 is WNr.500226. A-1a. 'Weisse 4'. pictured at Dedelstorf ... Regards, Franck. PS: Roger has been faster than me ... Or he started before ;) |
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Thanks Roger and Franck, good spot :)
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You're welcome Christian.
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hi,
yes, dedelsdorf - if all pictures (88, 190 and 262) were taken at the same location! all the best jim |
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Nothing interesting to see in the background of Ju 88 G-6, White E, but maybe the buildings help to identify the location.
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The building in the background is the "Flugleitung" of Fliegerhorst Dedelstorf, the picture of "White E" was cut on the right side just before the "control tower". See attached pictures. (The windows have been altered slightly at a later stage, but it's obviously the same building.) "White A" and "White E" belonged to I./KG66 ("my" unit of interest). In April 1945, I./KG66 discovered some brand new Ju 88 G-6 nightfighters without fuel on a German airfield. They were quickly refuelled and "borrowed" for the rest of the war. With their 20 mm guns, these aircraft excelled at strafing ground targets ("Strassenjagd") and hence proved very popular with their crews. Together with some Ju 88 S-3s and Ju 188 D-2s/D-3s, "White A" and "White E" were part of a group of I./KG66 aircraft that landed at Dedelstorf on 8 May 1945. They had started very early that day from Stavanger-Sola in Norway in order to evacuate German soldiers from the Kurland pocket. (At least that was the intention, most crews had no interest in risking captivity by the Russians and decided to fly straight to Germany instead….) As the crews were already familiar with Dedelstorf (some had even girlfriends there) from a previous posting in September 1944 - March 1945, a considerable number decided to land there. With the exception of 2 pilots, all were immediately captured by the Americans (which is obviously were the pictures in this thread came from). NB 1: The pictures of the wrecked He 111 Z ("Zwilling") and Go 242 earlier in this thread were also taken at Dedelstorf. NB2: For those of you scrambling to Google Earth (try "Dedelstorfer Allee, Dedelstorf"): Fliegerhorst Dedelstorf survived the war relatively intact and postwar became a Bundeswehr Barracks (later with M-109 Self Propelled Houwitzers). In 1994 it became one of the first victims of the End of the Cold War when it was closed down. In 2018, this little gem of a prewar Fliegerhorst was completely destroyed - with the exception of the beautiful Kasino (thanks to the so-called "Denkmalschütz") - when someone bought the terrain and converted it into a private hunting ground…On Google Earth, only a shadow of its former self remains… Best regards, Marcel van Heijkop I./KG66 Research |
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Hello Marcel,
thank you for the detailed answer! Best regards, Simon |
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Thank you very much indeed Marcel :)
Great info - may I ask what's your source for the story with the "borrowed" night fighters? Also for your allocation of the He 111 Z to Dedelstorf? Cheers, Christian |
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yes, that would be interesting! |
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My sources for the "borrowed night fighters" are interviews with 2 former I./KG66 members (and they told it independent of each other). According to the Kennzeichen (aircraft codes) in my I./KG66 Flugbuch collection, apart from "White A" and "White E" there were at least 6 other different Ju 88 G-6's with I./KG66. PS Airfield in question was Neubrandenburg and as several Ju 88 G-6s had "D5+..P" in their previous Kennzeichen, they must have belonged to 6./NJG3 at a certain stage. Regarding the He 111 Z: When I./KG66 arrived at Dedelstorf in mid September 1944, glider activity was still going on. The He 111 Z was possibly used for towing them in the air. One 1.Wart (Crew Chief) of 1./KG66 took pictures of the He 111 Z in flight and close to touchdown. These pictures are now in my collection. Unfortunately the weather conditions (sunshine) on that day prevented a clear picture of the aircraft code on the side. I'll have a look at the negatives to see if I can sharpen/enlarge them just a bit to make them readable again. Some time later the "Zwilling" was parked on the edge of the airfield and possibly camouflaged. The aircraft was blown up in April 1945 to prevent it from being captured by the Americans. A year later, the now former 1. Wart returned to Dedelstorf and took pictures of the wrecks of the He 111 Z and a Go 242. His pictures are remarkably similar to the ones offered on Ebay (see pictures a few pages back on this thread). Hope this helps, Marcel |
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Ah ok, interesting stuff. Thanks again Marcel!
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Did a little Google search and found this picture, from an article in a german newspaper about the war's end in Dedelstorf: https://img.gifhorner-rundschau.de/i...0/IMG-7185.jpg
This does look indeed like the He 111 Z /Go 242 group we discussed some time ago (only in a far more derelict / salvaged state). Seems we found our location thanks to Marcel :) |
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This is indeed one of the postwar pictures taken by the former 1./KG66 1. Wart mentioned in my post above. Setting and atmosphere is so typical for Dedelstorf.. Regards, Marcel PS Thanks for pointing out the article and subsequently Reiner Silberstein's book, I was unaware of them! Will try to get them. |
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This does look indeed like the He 111 Z /Go 242 group we discussed some time ago (only in a far more derelict / salvaged state). Seems we found our location thanks to Marcel :)[/QUOTE] The airlanding element of II./KG 200 wre in Dedelstorf in the summer of 1944 althought I think they largely used the Do 17/DFS 230 combination. |
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Just a question: why would a KG group have surplus of fuel and a NJG not?
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Just curious, what makes you think that? Based on Flugbuch entries in your collection? BTW: For what it is worth, the book "Dedelstorf, eine Kaserne in der Heide 1935 – 1990" confirms the use of the DFS 230 by II./KG200 at Dedelstorf and also states that the He 111 Z was attached to them"...Don't know what their source for the latter is, though..With regard to other subjects, I found the book fairly reliable. Regards, Marcel |
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I./KG66 was intended to act as Pathfinders for the Mistel units with regard to Unternehmen Eisenhammer. As the objective of Eisenhammer was to destroy Russian power stations, this meant long range (= a lot of fuel). For this reason, Ju 88 S-3s and Ju 188s of I./KG66 were modified in January and February in München-Riem and Roth to carry extra fuel tanks under the wings and in the bomb bays. ULTRA for example states the amount of fuel (in cubic meters) stored at I./KG66 airfields. When Eisenhammer was cancelled, the targets were switched and I./KG66 found itself acting as "Lotse für Mistel" against the Oder bridges. But the amounts of fuel were still there, I think.. Regards, Marcel |
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HW 5/467I could well be wrong about the Do 17s but II./KG 200's Kommando Schäfer, which was associated with Dedelstorf was taken into action on the Vercors Plateau by Do 17/DFS 230 although it seems they met up with the aircraft in Nancy. |
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Thanks Nick!
Marcel |
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Just start a conversation this morning: IS IT 110635 ????? Regards, Franck. |
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Unless the rudder on 110635 was changed, the tail lights are different. Jim |
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I agree Jim but on one of the photo taken at Schleswig-Jagel the rudder is already removed.
And what is that line under the fuselage? ... According a text found on line (google books, kind-of, in French) the machines used by French have been re-assembled in France from machines found there but from spare too, except one left in "one piece" by Watson. ... Two photos of 110635 display four anchors painted on roundels and one did suggest me this was done by and for French Navy (sic) ! So, I wonder did this N°7 was 110635 in previous life? Franck. |
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Franck, I took a look at those rondels with the anchors. I think you have a viable thesis. As "USA 4" it may have been a gift from the Americans.
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From joebaugher.com
USA numbers were allocated by Royal Air Force Intelligence teams to aircraft located in Northern Germany and Denmark which were listed as being of interest by US Intelligence. Details were then forwarded to Colonel Harold Watson and, if required by the Americans, the aircraft were handed over to the USAAF. USA 4 Messerschmitt Me 262B-1a/U1 two-seat trainer converted into a provisional night fighter version equipped with FuG 218 Neptun radar and Hirschgeweih (stag antler) eight-dipole antenna array. (Werk Nr 110635) Coded ‘Red 10’ of IV./NJG 11. Surrendered to British forces at Schleswig-Jagel, Germany 8May45. Not taken up by the US. |
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Frankly I don't know. Obviously we can see anchors on roundels but it's not the normal way to paint them and I don't understand why the French Navy ... Since I guess there was no French troops at Schleswig-Jagel these anchors are a free GI rendition. Need to have a look in old "Fanatique de l'Aviation" article concerning the Me262s used by Armée de l'Air. Last, yes, we can imagine it has been a gift but if so it hasn't been flown from there to Bretigny but, better, disassembled and load on trucks ... Hence my comments above. Regards, Franck. |
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Hi Franck, sure you know but 110635 was reportedly scrapped at No. 6 Maintenance Unit (MU) at Brize Norton in 1947. Messerschmitt Me 262B-1a/U1, (Wk. Nr. unknown), No. 7, dual control two-seat trainer, brought by rail to France and rebuilt. Ready to fly but not test flown, fate unknown. http://silverhawkauthor.com/axis-war...i-204_567.html |
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Yes I know but it appears it's not 100% sure. I took some contacts this morning; let's see. |
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