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Thanks Pierre, Alex Hopefully here is a link that shows the "GQ" https://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/f...1211752832.jpg |
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Post 2480 #2 is the Burbage Spitfire, X4668, shot down on 27 June 1941 (pilot killed).
Lots of extra info here: http://www.hinckleypastpresent.org/burbagespitfire.html |
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Its last flight was on 7 Nov 1939 when it was badly damaged in a force landing. Cheers Stig |
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Error post.
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2490
X4668 - 74 Sqdn ZP-E' 18-5-41 Shot down by Bf109 nr Adinkerke on sweep 27-6-41 SqLdr JC Mungo-Park (DFC)+ A named aircraft "Burbage" after an English village. |
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RAF photo album
https://www.historical-media.com/id1045.htm |
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Thanks Ed
#2492 : it is Bordeaux-Mérignac A/F |
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Faenor |
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#2505 : Thanks Ed ; with the date of 11/07/1941 could it be the Spitfire Va, R7208 lost with Sgt D. E. Fair (PoW) ?
Long time ago an old ebay given" Calais" |
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Spitfire R7208 was one from donation Spit and there is no visible name CITY OF LIVERPOOL III, which is connected with this Spit. Based on this,some researchers rather favor the Spit W3247, which was lost later (August 26th 1941 and pilot Sgt Albert Edward Gray was taken POW) - this Spit was has squadron code and letter FY-G. I have in my notes this info for this Spit: Sgt Albert Edward Grey Hornchurch went missing on 26 08 41 whilst taking part in Circus 87 near St Omer whilst escorting bombing Blenheims in Spitfire Vb W3247 'City of Hull III'. He force landed on the beach, was injured and taken POW. Funny is, that this Spit was from donation too and again there is no visible name :-) So I have it in my folder like 611. Sq Spit :-) Faenor |
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Hi Faenor
why not BUT why the date of 11 july 1941 some weeks before the loss of W3247 ????? Bertrand |
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On the back side of one of the photos it seems there is written Neuzeländer (no I haven't checked the German
spelling!) or something similar, which fits the pilot Sgt Fair. Sgt Grey was British I believe. With regard to Presentation Aircraft I don't think it was fixed that the names applied had to be on the aircraft's left, right or both sides, so it is quite possible we simply don't see the name on the available photos. So unless the photographer has had a total memory failure when writing his text I also favor the theory this is Sgt Fair's aircraft. Cheers Stig |
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Thanks Stig for your input. And if the ORB was simply wrong - it's quite regular - and the serials between the R7208 and the W3247 have been mixed ?
Recall page 115 of FCL vol1 it is written that P7428 lost (6/5/41) in southern england and that the ECPAD files (Lw PK) have a photo of this a/c photographed in France (DAA1762-L4).... |
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I also favour R7208 for this one, based on the inscription on the rear of the photo which contains both the date and the fact that the pilot was a New Zealander.
I'm a bit confused as to how "some researchers" can dismiss R7208 based on the fact that the presentation name is not visible, while suggesting W3247 which was also a presentation aircraft! On other thing: R7208 Va (8 machine guns) W3247 Vb (4 machine guns, 2 cannons) Does the photo of the leading edge of the wing offer any clues to someone more knowledgable about armament than me? |
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I suppose there will always remain controversies and question marks with regard to aviation history. Records were kept by humans and since many of "our clerks" most probably were terribly uninterested in the boring job of record keeping mistakes were inevitably made. We have debated this before, if the ORBs or the AM 78 cards are the most valid ones when it comes to British military aircraft. I have always favored the cards before the ORBs but also try not to be prejudiced. There is also accident records, but I have never seen any of those, so I don't know how they were kept. With regard to R7208 and W3247 it looks like all the records agree when/how they were lost. At least I can't find any source that differs, so I don't think there is any risk of confusion with these two Spitfires. Cheers Stig |
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Hi all, about Spitfire from 611. Sq:
1) there is a link about these photo + another, which I found in my archive and very probably same Spit http://www.modelari.org/viewtopic.php?p=44523#p44523 2) there is no visible serial number and we just use the notice on the backside of the photo - at that time, not everyone had photos developed immediately, this was done in retrospect, and the caption may not correspond to the situation - maybe it was a mistake of the owner, which he made in retrospect - this happened regularly 3) wing looks like Va with 8 guns Result - still it is in my folder for 611.Sq and without serial number. Faenor |
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Good points Faenor
However that means a) The individual must thus have been at both crashes and most likely taken pictures of both aircraft. Question then is where are his photos of the other crash? b) Since you say you believe this is an eight machine gun aircraft, which in fact support R7208 rather than W3247. Cheers Stig |
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RAF Flight Authorisation Logbook - Enemy Aircraft Servicing and Storage Unit
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/a...6-af8600eab186 |
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No 7 is W3450
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