Originally Posted by Leo Etgen (Post 98041)

Originally Posted by kb (Post 98044)

Interesting report/possible link from 363rd FG pilot Morton Kammerlohr

"We were a little southwest of Berlin when the bombers we escorted started their bomb run...we had started our climb, when he (1stLt Frank O'Connor) called me again to alert me of a FW190 at 12 oclock high and for me to serve as a decoy by turning in front of him to get his attention, so he could get on his tail. It worked perfectly; when O'Connor was ready to blow him away, he told me to make a hard left turn. The FockeWulf pilot didn't know what hit him; down it went..."

Lt O'Connor's claim is listed as "50 miles (75Km) sw of Berlin".

Originally Posted by drgondog (Post 98174)

First - Kb either scenario works for me - high speed crash landings frequently threw the pilot and as he had punched his canopy at the very minimum he probably had loosened his seat belt/harness.

Richard - IMHO there is very little chance that one could match Abbott to Steinke unless a.) this location near Magdeburg is pretty close to Neuhaldensleben airfield and b.) no other 109s went down that close to same claim/award location to perhaps B-17 gunners.

As there was no other Mustang/109 claim against JG3 attacking B-17s in Magdeburg area it is probable that B-17 gunners actually matched a claim to two 109 kills if two or more IV./JG3 went down in that area..There were however credits for 109s from Brunswick through Steinhuder Lake to Stendal, Brandenburg and Berlin

ALL the other 109 credits (including 9th AF) were essentially in a straight line from east of Hannover to Berlin area. Only the 352nd FG were awarded a credit for a 109 and 190 in the general area of Magdeburg south of Berlin...

Last answer to question. The 328FS/352nn FG led by Abbott probably assigned to escort the smaller strike force of the 3rd BD attacking Magdeburg. There were too few long rang escorts to devote more than one group to a 'branch target' when the main target was Berlin... so highly probable that the 352nd was the assigned group to the attacking 381st and 447th BG's.

This was one of the 8th BC worst days (comparable to May12) for poor navigation and route execution. Several FGs orbited for close to an hour (including the 355th and 352nd at theri assigned R/V points waiting for their bombers to show up.

If you can get your hands on the 8th AF Fighter Command Mission Summary for 8th FC FO 320, it will be a complete roll up of all the individual FG assignments and results, including 9th AF and RAF units involved...

Originally Posted by kb (Post 98181)

I doubt given the passage of time and fragmentary information on the circumstances of Steinke's demise you'll ever be able to reliably link Abbot to Steinke.

Steinke may have indeed been Abbot's victim, or could have been attempting to nurse a damaged aircraft to an airfield from an engagement along the bomber track further north.

You might want to try sending a PM to Herr Prien, who is a member of this forum; perhaps he has some more definitive information.

Originally Posted by Richard Mills (Post 98223)

Gents

I really appreciate your help with my questions concerning Rolf Steinke.

Steinke's aircraft crashed 1 km SW of Magdeberg, yet (according to Google maps) Neuhaldersleben where Abott shot down his Bf-109 is 23 km NW of Magdeberg. Is it conceivable that in the time it took to engage Steinke's aircraft with 2 seperate bursts of machine gun fire, that his aircraft could travel that distance?

I need to ascertain from Herr Preins IV./JG3 book the details of the other 2 Bf-109 aircraft lost that day. I shall PM Heer Prein to maybe see if he can shed any light on this matter, he may be able to help so it is worth asking the question.

I may not be able to pin the kill claimed by Abott onto Steinke as his victim however, I want to cover all angles in determining as much as I possibly can.

Finally, can you give me a pointer as to where I can start to look for the 8th AF Fighter Command Mission Summary for 8th FC FO 320?

Thanks again Gents.

Regards Richard.

Originally Posted by drgondog (Post 98231)

USAFHRC at Maxwell AFB, AL - Lynn Gamma for first place to start

On the first question I would think so. Abott saw his victim after leaving the airfield heading west. He shot, then turned around to chase him heading in opposite direction.

If Steinke was heading ~ se then turning around, chasing and closing to shoot again could easily take 12 miles at 300 mph? ~ 3-4 minutes

Originally Posted by Leo Etgen (Post 98252)

Hello Richard

Unfortunately it appears that not much is known regarding the other two losses IV./JG 3 suffered on 29 April 1944 as both pilots were not casualties. The loss list simply states the following for both losses:

IV./JG 3 NN - Luftkampf, Ort unbekannt, 100% Bf 109 G-6

Perhaps someone else can add additional details if new information has been uncovered.

Horrido!

Leo

Originally Posted by drgondog (Post 98290)

Richard - start here http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/