|
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Quote:
That would mean that the aircraft would have been in the Standard RN Extra Dark Sea Grey and Slate Grey upper colours and Sky undersides of the period. Does the aircraft in the photograph have any unit codes on the side that are visible besides the Royal Navy and Aircraft Serial. The profile I wish get the correct markings on is attached. Regards Richard |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Hello BIGVERN1966
regretfully I cannot enlarge the thumbnail, most probably because my b….. PC is acting again, but after looking the small thumbnail I noticed that I should have written before that the spinner of the a/c in the photo is very dark, probably black. And the front half of the radar pod shows in the photo as light grey and the after half as white. The starboard wing conceals the fuselage in front of the side roundel, but behind the roundel there is no unit code. The starboard wing underside is badly in shadow, but there seem to be only rather small roundel, which isn’t at the tip of the wing but maybe halfway between tip and the outer cannon. As You know MB419 seems to have flown most of the Firefly interception missions from Coltishall. HTH Juha |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
On September 30th (1941), S.Ten. Franco Ferrari of 371ª Squadriglia was shot down and killed in the Nowo-Petrikowka area by German Flak, which mistook his Macchi as a Russian fighter.
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cg...7;article=3224 |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Many thanks Laurent - another 'new' incident to me.
Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Hi Brian,
I continue to find friendly fire incidents here and there, and will report them here. Here are two, both for 49th FG USAAF: 31 October 1944: To start the day wrong, the ack ack shot down a P-38 from the 7th squadron while it was landing. There was a strafing raid in progress, but that was a scant excuse for the tragic incident. Source: http://www.flyingknights.net/unit/oct44b.htm The pilot may have been 2nd Lt Robert W. Searlight who was KIA this day but I have no confirmation of this, or any serial. 4 April 1942 See the following link: http://www.armyairforces.com/forum/m_89349/tm.htm It describes a raid on Darwin. Returning intercepting US fighters were fired on by Australian AA fire and two shot down, with one pilot KIA. Best regards Laurent |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Quote:
|
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Thanks for the latest - nice to hear from you once again, Nifty, trust you are well.
Keep em coming! Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Brian - from Kelly Gross's book page 241.
354th pilot M.J. Slavlan P-47 AJ - I serial # unknown Shot down by U.S. Anti - Aircraft near 354th base, Rosieres- en - Hays December 4 , 44. He also witnessed a P -38 shot down by U.S. AA at Base A - 2. Evening of June 26,44. All evidence points to P-38 #2104416 479th FG Lt. Burton Gross( not related) KIA Macr 6557- Filed the next day. Cheers, Mike |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Cheers, Mike, two new names for me. The shooting down of the P-38 at A.2 was the incident witnessed by Richard Turner - the one we couldn't establish earlier.
I assume Slavin's aircraft wasn't badly damaged - it doesn't appear in the Armyairforces listing. Does anyone know more about him? Have a nice one - the weather here today in Suffolk is beautiful - and about time too. Just perfect for the second day of the Third Test Match against Sri Lanka!! With apologies to all Americans who do not appreciate the real 'beautiful game'! Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Brian - Are you aware of this incident?
Look up X4818 on this web site? http://www.adf-serials.com/2a58.shtml If you do, I don't suppose you have crew names do you? Thanks Paul |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Hi Paul
Many thanks. Yes, I have this one fairly well recorded including names. The pilot accidentally shot down was sadly killed. Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
I don't supoose you can supply the name of the airman that died can you?
The reason I ask...... http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58567 Regards Paul |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Hi Paul
I have sent you a PM with details. Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Hi Ruy
Why am I top of the tree? Do I win a prize? If so, please make it cash! Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Unfortunately 12oclockhigh.net is strictly low budget, so no prices!!!
As one of the more active threads I thought I might as well sticky it for the duration - if the attention level drops off I'll unsticky it again. Unless you'd rather have it as a non-sticky in the first place. |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Many thanks Ruy - you know how grateful I am for allowing me to post so many queries over the past few months - I have gained so much knowledge via your site.
Long may ye reek, as the say in Scotland! Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
9 September 1940
RAF Hurricane Mk.I -- P2765 was shot down by a German Heinkel 111 bomber over Farnborough, Kent. Pilot Officer J. S. Humphreys bailed out, was shot at in error by Canadian soldiers, and then robbed by them on landing! (If anyone knows more about this incident, please do tell). Norman Franks, RAF Fighter Command Losses vol. I, p.79. 1 July 1942 Squadron Leader R. W. 'Bobby' Oxspring was an eyewitness to the destruction of Spitfire AB806 and he nearly met the same end: " ... Stung into retaliation by our relentless offensive, the Luftwaffe resorted to sneak raids on our south coast towns and ports ... In the Biggin Hill sector these raids concerned 91 Squadron more than others because of our disposition on the south coast. Despite this, our success at intercepting these raids was practically nil and caused us much frustration. I flew up to Biggin Hill and took my worries to the sector commander, Dicky Barwell was as concerned as I was and we had a long discussion with the senior controller, Bill Igoe. Ultimately Dicky suggested that with Bill controlling he would accompany me on a standing patrol the same evening to try to assess first-hand what the problems were. We took off from Biggin Hill an hour before sunset and patrolled just off the coast between Dungeness and Beachy Head. There was a very thick haze up to 16,000 feet and we were stationed just above it. As we approached Beachy, Bill warned us of unidentified plots in our vicinity and we peered into the haze for signs of activity. Suddenly I sighted two fighters approaching us out of the glare of the setting sun and gave a warning to Dicky who was abreast of me and nearer to them. The leading fighter, which flew close over the top of me, I identified as a Spitfire and called the fact to Dicky. I watched as it faded to my rear and then turned back to see the second aircraft, another Spit, behind Dicky and already opening fire on him. Calling an urgent break to Dicky I flew on a collision course at his attacker and succeeded in distracting him enough to force a break-away. I turned back to close over the top of Dicky, whose aircraft was flaming from the petrol tank, and I could see him desperately trying to open the canopy to bale out. I glanced back to see the first Spit swinging in behind me and opening fire. I broke hard round and down into the haze to shake him off, but search as I might I could see no sign of Dicky. My frantic calls to him bore no response and I circled down through the murk to the Channel. All I could find was what I took to be and oil slick on the surface, but there was no sign of either a parachute or a dinghy. I flew despondently back to Biggin Hill to report the tragedy. Despite intensive air sea rescue searches, no trace of Dicky was ever found. I felt awful about it and somehow responsible for losing a gallant officer. No blame could be apportioned to Bill Igoe's control organization; they did their job. It is significant, however, that the subsequent Court of Inquiry revealed that the two Spitfires which caused the calamity came from an Allied squadron in the Tangmere sector and that, incredibly, one pilot was on his first operational mission sortie and the leader on his second. So died a superb commander in the most deplorable circumstances. With his body still strapped in plaster to protect his cracked vertebrae, Dicky probably found it too severe a handicap either to abandon his aircraft or even to jettison the canopy. But being the man he was he would have been the first to forgive the trigger-happy Tangmere pilots who, itching to claim their first Hun, couldn't tell the difference between a Messerschmitt and a Spitfire..." See p.106-108, Oxspring, Robert Wardlow. Spitfire Command (London: Kimber, 1984). 1 June 1943 RAF Typhoon Mk.1b -- (609 Squadron) was damaged by British AA-fire near Margate while in pursuit of a Focke-Wulf fighter-bomber from SKG 10. Chris Goss/Luftwaffe Fighter-Bombers Over Britain, p.276. 3 August 1943 USAAF P-40 (79th Fighter Group) was misidentified and damaged by gunfire from another P-40 of the 57th Fighter Group. Leo G. Berinati was not injured and landed safely at Palagonia. See p.93, Don Woerpel, A Hostile Sky: The Mediterranean Airwar of the 79th Fighter Group. 19 August 1943 Hubert Zemke: " ... Our only loss was due to an engine failure ... however, the group leader came near to getting an extra parting in his hair. Having dived after an FW 190 near the bombers and opened fire with apparently little effect, a hole suddenly appeared in my windshield. Only later, after my crew chief reported finding a spent .50-caliber bullet in the cockpit, did I appreciate my person had experienced a very near miss. The bullet most likely came from one of the B-17s we were shepherding ... " See Roger Freeman / Zemke's Wolf Pack, p.109. September 1943 " ... On the second or third day after the Salerno invasion, we were flying low patrol at 5000ft looking for enemy fighters ... all of a sudden these fighters peeled off left and began a dive-bomb run on the shipping off the beachhead ... I had one eyeball on an Fw 190 in my 7 o'clock position about 1,000ft back and one eyeball on my leader. By this time we were all in a 60 degree dive. I was just about to call a left break for the element leader when the Allied fleet laying off the beachhead solved my problem. Every anti-aircraft gun on every ship (and there was a great many!) opened up on us and literally filled the sky around us with flak -- so heavy that it turned the sky a dark grey. The Fw 190 behind me took a hit and then everyone, A-36s and Fw 190s, broke right out of it ... " George Halliwell 27th Fighter-Bomber Group See Peter Smith / Straight Down!, p.124-125. 13 September 1943 USAAF A-36A (27th Fighter-Bomber Group) was shot down in error by a P-38 Lightning. It's not clear if the A-36 pilot was Lt. D. E. Wenger (missing) or Lt. Joseph Carparelli (later returned to base after bailing out). See Peter Smith / Straight Down!, p.124-125. According to database at armyairforces.com: A-36 42-84041 MACR 710 A-36 42-83990 MACR 713 26 December 1943 USAAF P-47D-2 -- 42-8095 (348th Fighter Group) was shot down by friendly AA-fire off Cape Gloucester. Lt. James E. Pratt was killed in the crash. Stanaway /Kearby's Thunderbolts, p.176. 7 February 1944 A Spitfire (unit unknown) was shot down by 'friendly' AA fire near Anzio, Italy. See p.134, Don Woerpel, A Hostile Sky: The Mediterranean Airwar of the 79th Fighter Group. 15 March 1944 USAAF P-47 (79th Fighter Group) was shot down by a British artillery unit near Anzio, Italy. The Thunderbolt was hit by a 25-pounder shell that tore off a wing. Lt. George Bolte bailed out safely, though he had trouble dislodging himself from the cockpit and his parachute blossomed at a height of just 200 feet. British ground troops calmed his nerves with some spiked tea. See p.147, Don Woerpel, A Hostile Sky: The Mediterranean Airwar of the 79th Fighter Group. 11 April 1944 USAAF P-47 (325th Fighter Group) was shot down by a USAAF P-38 over Italy. Captain Harry A. Parker bailed out safely. McDowell, p.55. 26 April 1944 USAAF P-38 Lightning (474th Fighter Group) unaccountably picked up a .303 caliber slug in a wingtip while flying a convoy patrol over Allied ships off Bolt Head. Lt. James Frederick was not injured. See p.63, Steinko, John Truman. The "Geyser" Gang: The 428th Fighter Squadron in World War II (Minneapolis, MN: ROMA Associates, 1986). 7 July 1944 USAAF P-51s of the 363rd Fighter Group opened fire on a Mosquito near Vire, although they soon recognized their mistake and broke off before causing much damage. The intercept was requested by a ground control radar station after they detected an unidentified aircraft. Kent Miller / 363rd FG, p.32. 15 August 1944 USAAF P-38 Lightnings of the 1st Fighter Group flew patrols over the landing beaches during Operation ANVIL, the Allied invasion of Southern France. One of their pilots recalled: " ... In flying these patterns one had to be careful not to overfly the U. S. Navy. They (the Navy) seemed to have a practice of firing on any plane that came into range of their ships ... " See John Mullins / An Escort of P-38s, p.134. 20 August 1944 The Canadian Army produced a report listing 52 separate attacks against them by Allied fighter bombers -- RAF Typhoons, Spitfires, Mustangs, and USAAF Lightnings--between 16-18 August 1944. 72 men were killed and 191 wounded, and twelve vehicles were destroyed or damaged. Canadian 1st Army Report, Attacks by Allied A/C on own Tps -18 and 19 Aug. 1944 (20 August 1944) PRO WO 205/232. Ian Gooderson / Air Power at the Battlefront, see p.33, 54. 16 September 1944 Three P-38s from the 428th Fighter-Bomber Squadron flew a Night Intruder ground attack mission to harass German troops. Lt. George Guyon and Lt. Francis Connolly were fired upon by friendly antiaircraft batteries between Huy and Leige. Lt. Guyon was flying at 11,000 feet when hit in the right engine and set alight, but he bailed out safely and returned to base the next day. See p.127, 284, Steinko, John Truman. The "Geyser" Gang: The 428th Fighter Squadron in World War II (Minneapolis, MN: ROMA Associates, 1986). 19 October 1944 Hubert Zemke: " ... The weather got progressively worse as one storm front after another filled the sky with cloud and rain. Frequently our climb out and descent was through solid overcasts. Coming back from Germany on the 19th and thinking we were over the North Sea, I led the group down to break out of the gloom. We happened to find ourselves over Dunkirk where "friendly" flak took us to be some Luftwaffe planes attempting to supply the isolated German garrison there. Poor old Gleason's ship got well peppered and he had to bail out, clobbering a leg on the stabilizer as he went. Another of our pilots, Jim Frolking, was hit by fire from a boat in the Scheldt and had to jump. He landed in the water and desperately tried to inflate his dinghy and get aboard. His efforts were unsuccessful, and exhausted, he let himself sink, being somewhat startled -- to say nothing of relieved -- to find his feet on the bottom just three feet below the surface. He walked out and the Dutch folk hid him until they could get him back to Allied territory ... " See Roger Freeman / Zemke's Wolf Pack, p.193. 10 November 1944 USAAF P-47D-23 -- 42-27637 (348th Fighter Group) shot down by a USAAF P-38 off the Philippines. Lt. Andrew A. McClendon was last seen over the Mindanao sea while flying top cover for a B-25 strike. Stanaway / Kearby's Thunderbolts, p.177. 18 December 1944 USAAF P-38 (474th Fighter Group) was shot down by a British antiaircraft unit. The pilot took off at dusk and through a ground radar controller he was investigating a bogie in almost total darkness when his aircraft was caught in searchlights and hit. Lt. Robert H. Strong bailed out safely near the battlefront and evaded capture. See p.155, Steinko, John Truman. The "Geyser" Gang: The 428th Fighter Squadron in World War II (Minneapolis, MN: ROMA Associates, 1986). 10 March 1945 USAAF P-51s of the 359th Fighter Group were inadvertantly fired upon by US anti-aircraft guns near the bridge over the Rhine at Remagen, which wasbeing bombarded by German aircraft. Capt. Ray S. Wetmore's Mustang was seriously damaged, resulting in loss of hydraulic power. He tried to bail out but with his canopy jammed shut, Wetmore was forced to fly to a nearby airfield where he made a successful wheels-up landing. Smith, p.158-159. McLachlan, p.52-55. Some unfortunate "firsts": 29 August 1941 FW 190A-1 (6.Staffel/JG 26) was shot down in error by a German flak gunner near the French coast and crashed on the beach south of Dunkirk. Leutnant Heinz Schenk was the first Focke-Wulf 190 pilot to be killed in action. See p.170-17, Caldwell, Donald. The JG 26 War Diary: Volume One 1939-1942 (London: Grub Street, 1996). 28 August 1944 An Arado Ar 234B, evidently the first pre-production model delivered to the Luftwaffe, was misidentified and shot up in error by German airfield defenses at Chievres. Oberstleutnant Horst Götz intended to land there but instead diverted his damaged jet to Oranienburg where he was forced to crash-land wheels-up. Götz was slightly injured but his ordeal was not over. As he climbed out of the cockpit, a German fighter pilot inadvertently taxied his plane into the Arado which was chewed up by the propeller and destroyed -- Götz was temporarily blinded by the shower of flying debris; he could not see for several weeks. Now that's a bad day! Ethell & Price / The German Jets in Combat, p.84. 23 April 1943 Like the Hurricane in RAF service, the first combat loss of a Mustang in USAAF service was due to friendly fire. Delivered to the 68th Observation Group as an F-6A, (a repossessed RAF Mustang IA with 20mm cannons) this Mustang was strafing along the Pont due Fahs to Medjez road, when shot down by American AA fire. See Peter Smith / Straight Down!, p.29. Late 1942, exact date unknown to me One of the first Hungarian pilots to score a 'victory' while flying a Bf 109 was Sergeant Dezsö Szentgyörgyi, at the end of 1942. Unhappily for him his first 'victory' proved to be a Luftwaffe Heinkel He 111, which was forced to crash-land! Though there were no casualties, congratualtions were hardly forthcoming. This episode did not prevent him becoming the RHAF's leading ace, with 34 victories accredited to him by the end of the war. See p.70, von Ishoven, Armand. Messerschmitt Bf 109 at War. And from another era: 27 February 1965 An aircraft from the carrier USS Midway was inadvertently shot down by USS Preble (DLG-15) when it overflew a missile range during southern California maneuvers for the SILVER LANCE exercise. See http://www.midwaysailor.com/midway/history.html 23 August 1967 A VPAF MiG-17 piloted by Nguyen Van Coc was damaged by cannon-fire when he flew across the path of another MiG-17. See p.21, Air War over North Viet Nam: The Vietnamese People's Air Force 1949-1977, Istvan Toperczer, Squadron-Signal, 1998. 7 May 1968 A VPAF MiG-21s were mistakenly fired upon by their own AAA batteries near Do Loung. One of four MiG-21 pilots (Dong Ngoc Ngu) released his drop tanks when he mistook one pair of MiG-21s as American F-4 Phantoms, but realized his error before opening fire. See p.27, Air War over North Viet Nam: The Vietnamese People's Air Force 1949-1977, Istvan Toperczer, Squadron-Signal, 1998. 10 May 1972 A VPAF MiG-21 was shot down in error by a North Vietnamese SAM near Tuyen Quang. The unknown pilot was killed. See p.45, Air War over North Viet Nam: The Vietnamese People's Air Force 1949-1977, Istvan Toperczer, Squadron-Signal, 1998. 23 May 1972 VPAF MiG-19 was shot down in error by a North Vietnamese SAM. Nguyen Duc Tiem ejected safely. See p.46, Air War over North Viet Nam: The Vietnamese People's Air Force 1949-1977, Istvan Toperczer, Squadron-Signal, 1998. 2 June 1972 VPAF MiG-19 was shot down in error by a North Vietnamese SAM near Kep. The unknown pilot was killed. See p.46, Air War over North Viet Nam: The Vietnamese People's Air Force 1949-1977, Istvan Toperczer, Squadron-Signal, 1998. May 1982 During a simulated air attack, an RAF Jaguar was destroyed in error by an RAF FGR.2 Phantom. Flight Lieutenant Steve Griggs ejected safely, apparently the victim of an unintentionally triggered Sidewinder launch near Bruggen. It was not explained why the Phantom, crewed by Flight Lieutenant Roy Laurence and Flight Lieutenant Alistair Invergarity, carried live missiles during a training exercise vs. friendly aircraft. Anthony Thornborough / The Phantom Story, p.74. June 1982 A British Army Gazelle was shot down in error by a British warship stationed off the Falkland Islands, and four men were killed. The helicopter was hit by Sea Dart missiles fired by the HMS Cardiff. Martin Middlebrook / The Falklands War 1982, p.299-300 On a final note, I found other cases of World War II paint schemes designed to speed aircraft identification. In Francis Mason's BATTLE OVER BRITAIN there are two photos of Ju 88A-1 WNr.4136 which might be of interest. Eric Larger's FW 190D-9 COLORS & MARKINGS has photos and plates of the JV44 Doras that flew top cover for jet-take-offs; these Focke-Wulfs had the undersides painted in a red and white candy stripe motif to discourage the trigger-happy FLAK gunners. Check out Mike Crosley's THEY GAVE ME A SEAFIRE. I didn't have time to record the details while skimming through, but I noticed several cases of Seafires destroyed by friendly AA and at least one downed by an RAF Spitfire. |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Quote:
" ... If the Royal Navy seemed 'trigger-happy' to Colonel Kelly it was with good reason. From Norway, through Dunkirk, Greece, Crete and numerous other occasions, the RAF had totally failed to protect them from the Luftwaffe and the assumption that anything in the sky was enemy, was hard to break. Nor had the arrival of the USAAF helped much. Earlier in the year, on 9 May 1943, while patrolling the Sicilian Channel to prevent German troops from escaping to Sicily, and with their decks painted British red to make recognition simple, two British destroyers, Bicester and Zetland, had been dive-bombed by fifteen American-flown Spitfires of the 57th Group. One bomb hit the Bicester on her starboard side, and it passed through her Chief and Petty Officers' mess into the after fuel tanks. Fortunately it failed to explode. Another was a near-miss alongside. A second wave of fifteen Spitfires then made another attack. The destroyer's captain, Lieutenant-Commander S. W. F. Bennetts ('...a former submarine officer, famed for extensive knowledge of the lesser used terms of the English language') overheard the American pilots talking on their radio telephones overhead after the attack. Tuning in his own set he joined in, calling them all the names he could think of without reservation. After listening in, one of the Americans was heard to remark to his colleague, 'Say I guess this guy's friendly!' What Bennetts said to that is not on record. See Cunningham of Hyndhope, A Sailor's Odyssey, London, 1951. On 12 May the captain, along with a party of two other officers and twenty ratings from the ship visited 57 Group to talk with their attackers face-to-face. They were 'hospitably-entertained' and Bennetts was told that the Americans concentrated on his ship as the leading vessel and had aimed tenty-five bombs at her. Bennetts commented 'It seemed like more at the time! HMS Bicester, Report of Proceedings May 1943. ADM 199, Public Record Office, Kew, London. See Peter Smith / Straight Down!, p.134-135 ... " More to follow ... eventually. |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Thanks a million, Six Nifty - that's some reading you've been doing lately!
Look forward to the next batch. Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Hi guys
Earlier I was enquiring about a US light aircraft possibly shot down in France on 22 August 1944 by friendly fire. Could it possibly have been U-61A 43-14644 of 382ndFS/363rdFG flown by Henry B. Messer that was lost on this date? Any information would be most helpful, even if only to elimate. Thanks Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Re 9 Sep 40, I was in touch with him some years ago-Jim Humphreys was shot down by a He 111 of Stab III/KG 53. On descending by parachute, he was shot at by Canadian soldiers (who missed) but he did not mention being robbed.
|
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Hi Brian,
for some other project I did a list of the actions fought by US PT boats during the war and here are the cases where they were attacked by friendly AC: 20 July 1943 USAAF B-25s, unaware of friendly naval vessels in their patrol area, mistakenly sink motor torpedo boat PT-166 (08°15'S, 156°53'E) and damage PT-164 and PT-168 in Ferguson Passage, Solomons. 27 March 1944 Motor torpedo boats PT-121 and PT-353 are mistakenly sunk by friendly bomber, Bismarck Archipelago, 05°17'S, 151°01'E. 29 April 1944 Motor torpedo boats PT-346 and PT-347 are accidentally sunk by F4Us (VMF 215) and F6Fs (VF 34), and SBDs and TBFs off Cape Lambert, Bismarck Archipelago, 04°13'S, 151°27'E. PBY (VP 91) rescues survivors from the two PT-boats. 29 September 1944 Motor torpedo boat PT-310 is mistakenly strafed by RAF Beaufighter off southern France. 26 December 1944 Japanese "Intrusion Force" (Rear Admiral Kimura Masanori), consisting of heavy cruiser Ashigara, light cruiser Oyodo, three destroyers and three escort destroyers, approaches Mindoro to bombard the beachhead. USAAF B-25s, P-38s, P-40s, and P-47s and Navy PB4Ys and PBMs successively attack the force. These damage Ashigara (near-misses), Oyodo, destroyers Asashimo, Kiyoshimo, and Kasumi, and escort destroyers Kaya and Kashi. Kimura's force carries out its bombardment mission, then encounters U.S. motor torpedo boats; PT-77 is damaged, probably accidentally bombed by friendly aircraft. Subsequently, PT-223 sinks the already damaged Kiyoshimo off San Jose, 145 miles south of Manila, 12°20'N, 121°00'E. 7 March 1945 Motor torpedo boats PT-305 and PT-307 are accidentally bombed (but not damaged) by friendly aircraft while patrolling southwest of Genoa, Italy. By the way, I will continue one day to send you data about the 1940 cases I listed. Just when I will have time again... Best Regards Laurent |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Hi Laurent
Thanks once again for your input. Don't worry about the 1940 losses - I do require them in due course, but no panic. Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Hello There.
Regarding friendly fire. I have noted at least five instances of friendly fire over Scoglitti, Sicily in Jun/Jul 1944. All of them C-47s. This info is available on Joe Baughers website. However there is an awful lot of info to trawl through to find what you are interested in. Regards Alan |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Many thanks Alan, I have this well documented.
Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
I found today the 440th TCG USAAF webiste.
Two case that may interest you: 5-6 June 1944: don't know if you wiull consider it. "On the first Normandy parachute mission one aircraft of another Group was destroyed and several were killed and wounded when a trooper's rifle discharged as he was boarding. The round hit a Gammon grenade of a trooper already aboard setting off a tremendous explosion in the aircraft." Sounds more of an accident than friendly fire to me, but it will be your choice. http://www.440thtroopcarriergroup.or...fullbeck.shtml 8 April 1945: two C-47 of 97th TCS destroyed on the ground in Germany by two "German" P-51. More details at http://www.440thtroopcarriergroup.or...yseventh.shtml |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Super stuff Laurent, two more for the collection!
Thanks Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Hello Brian,
It hasn't stopped yet. How about a B52 downed by an F100 ? Yes a Buff . On the 7th April 1961, a 95BW B52B serial 53-0380 was downed by a Sidewinder from a 188FBW F100A serial 53-1660. Details from a Scramble book "US Military A/c Mishaps 1950-2004" The story will never end I expect Alex |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Thanks Alex
I agree! Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Operation Jubilee 'friendly fire'
The following Allied losses suffered during the Dieppe raid 19th August. Blenhiem IV's from 13 and 613 Squadron carrying out early morning low level smoke laying mission were engaged by German flak and Allied naval vessels (the Polish destroyer SLAZAK claimed to have shotdown one 'twin engined bomber' long before any Luftwaffe bombers had arrived). The combination of 'Friendly' and 'unfriendly' fire shotdown one Blenhiem IV (13 Sqn-V5380 OO-D PO C.L. Woodland, Sgt H.G Neville and Sgt A.S. Boyd all killed) and damaged five more aircraft, one of which forcelanded and was burnt out (613 Sqn-V5626 SY-J F/Lt J.E. Scott-injured, Sgt W. Johnson DOI 22/8/42 and F/Sgt G.R. Gifkins-killed). Have details of the other damaged aircraft if you're interested. 64 Sqn Spitfire IX BR977 (PO J.K. Stewart-killed) appears to have been a victim during the squadrons third mission. Whilst engaging Do217's he was heard to call 'be careful you're firing at me' and wasn't seen again. The identity of his attacker is not known (at the time the squadron was in company with 131 Sqn but he may have been hit by a 64 Sqn aircraft). 266 Sqn Typhoon 1b R7815 (F/Lt R.H.L. Dawson-killed) shotdown by 332 Sqn Spitfire whilst returning from the Typhoon Wing's second mission. Also other pre-raid Typhoon losses; 1st June 1942: 56 Sqn R7678 (PO R.H.Deugo-safe) and R8199 (Sgt K.M. Stewart-Turner-killed) shotdown by 401 Sqn Spitfires. 30th July 1942: 56 Sqn R7853 (Lt E. Haabojoern-safe) shotdown by Spitfire. Regards Steve Pegge |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Thanks Steve- some I have, some I haven't
Cheers Brian |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Brian, any comment on this case ?
"Night 5/6 June During the night a number of aircraft were lost to reasons other than enemy fire. Aboard a 75 Squadron Lancaster, Flight Sergeant W E Barker witnessed a mid-air collision between two Halifaxes. Sadly, there was also a friendly fire incident. Flight Sergeant Douglas in a 15 Squadron Lancaster was fired upon by ships of the US Navy. The fire missed his aircraft by a narrow margin, but hit and destroyed two other Lancasters in the formation." Source: http://www.raf.mod.uk/dday/timeline_june5.html And a post-WWII case, Greek-Cypriot firing on Greek aircraft bringing reinforcements during the Turkish invasion in 1974: 33 dead Source: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...t=79617&page=5 |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
As long as the friendly fire kills move out of WWII, here is another from personal experience.
Sometime in 1952-53 timeframe (I was 6 or 7) Col Mac McWhorter was a/c commander in a B-17 mothership controlling a drone B-17 in trail over the Gulf between Panama City and Eglin AFB, FL. Major Art DeBolt was flying a radar controlled approach in an F-86D and locked on the wrong target - hitting the command ship. Mac stayed with the burning B-17 to maintain control while the crew bailed and was killed when the B-17 blew up. DeBolt resigned from USAF after the incident. Both were close friends of my father.. first time I realized my father could possibly get killed flying. Regards, Bill Marshall |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Dear Brian,
Back in 1994, I found several files at NARA, College Park, Maryland having information on USAAF vs Soviet friendly fire incidents. I marked down the files, but forgot where I placed this information. Yesterday, while packing material from several filing cabinets into boxes for the move back to Canada, I accidently found the references. Besides the reference numbers, my brief notes state: CCS373.11 USAAF attack Soviet Ship 9-16-1944;CCS373.11 alleged violation of USSR bombing; and CCS373.2 3-20-45 Russians attack B-17 in Moris region. Though the reports detail certain specific incidents, they also contain information on several more encounters between Soviet and USAAF aircraft. Apparently, friendly fire between both the Soviets and USAAF appears to be quite common at the end of the war. I plan attending my unit's reunion, the 12th TFW, Cam Ranh, RSVN, in Washington, DC in Sept. Will visit NARA and copy the files for you. Hope this is not too late. Yours very truly, Norman Malayney |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
I don't know if you have it, but the 332 Squadron pilot who shotdown the Typhoon during operation Jubilee was Lt O. Kristiansen (332 Sqn).
Regards Steve Pegge |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
Reviewing this thread prompted a hazy memory of reading a newspaper article some 30 years ago about a Luftwaffe attack on German destroyers in the North Sea in early 1940.
Fortunately an excellent account is available online about this incident on 22 February 1940, when He 111 1 H + I M of KG 26 attacked a force of 6 German destroyers in the North Sea - a combination of bombs from the aircraft and possibly German and/or British mines led to the sinking of 2 destroyers and the loss of 578 sailors: http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmari.../feature4.html Quite a 'friendly fire' incident. I did check and couldn't see it listed earlier in the thread - I was a bit surprised, perhaps it is so well known that it is not considered worthy of being mentioned, but it may be a new piece of intelligence to some members of the Discussion Board, hence this post. Another more contemporary incident - Argentinean A4B Skyhawk shot down by Argentinean 35 mm flak on 22 May 1984 near Goose Green airstrip on East Falkland Island, pilot F Gavazzi killed (The Royal Navy and the Falklands War, David Brown, page 160). (Note that a 'smiley' seems to have appeared on this post - I did NOT add it, certainly I mean no disrespect about what was obviously a very sad incident: Boomerang) Cheers Boomerang |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
I do not know if this may be on any interest to you, but note that, on September 26th 1940, during the Anglo-French confrontation in Dakar, Sénégal, the flying boat Loire 130Cl # 22 belonging to the "Section de surveillance de l'escadrille 4E", mistaken for a Supermarine Walrus, was attacked and shot down by a Dewoitine 501 from "Escadrille I/6" stationed in Thiès. The pilot was saved by his parachute but the three other crew members were killed in the ensuing crah.
|
Re: Friendly fire WWII
THis page is in French but if you are interested (ie If you have not this case in your files already) I will translate it:
on 9 AUguts 1944, a Albermale of 296 Sqn was probably shot down by an Allied nightfighter over Britanny. Link: http://www.absa39-45.asso.fr/9aout44/aout44.html |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
A case for the Luftwaffe. 1 October 1943 on Eastern Front
"On 1 October, Petermann participated in the escort of 40 He 111 twin-engine bombers. On the return journey his Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 15851) received a direct hit from German flak. He received severe wounds to his left arm and wrist and his left foot. With his engine on fire, he decided to bale out but found his parachute had also been damaged. He managed a belly-landing in no-man’s land between the front lines where he was rescued by German troops and hospitalised. However the wounds to left arm were so severe that amputation was necessary. In addition he had lost the fourth toe of his left foot. Petermann was awarded the Ritterkreuz on 29 February 1944, for 60 victories, while recovering in hospital." http://www.luftwaffe.cz/petermann.html |
Re: Friendly fire WWII
A Pacific story:
"In spite of the fact that 'Black Mac's Killers' arrived forty days after the Okinawa campaign began, and the weather was horrendous throughout, they shot down 35 enemy aircraft-all radar intercepts, which is almost as many aircraft destroyed as all 3 other night fighter squadrons on Okinawa, combined! VMF(N) 533 is the top scoring Night Fighter Squadron of the Pacific Theater in WWII. VMF(N) 533 had the best safety record and the highest combat ready rate for any operational squadron in the Pacific. In 15 months deployment overseas the 'Scrappers' logged nearly 11,000 flight hours with only two regrettable losses, both due to 'friendly' fire, 1st Lt.'s Wilhide and Kelley." Source: http://www.acepilots.com/usmc/usmc_vmfn533.html THE ABMC website has a 1st Lt Robert Wilhide killed on 17 May 1945 or 2nd Lt Wilfred Wilhide killed on 26 May 1945, both of them being USMC pilots !!! Too much Kelleys listed to find the good one. |
| All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:08. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2026, 12oclockhigh.net