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- - Friendly fire WWII (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=2670)

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks guys for the latest - and my apology for the late response (Broadband connection problems again! I must remember to pay the bill!!)

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Brian, I don't know if you're still collecting these cases.

Here are two new (for me) ones in the Pacific:

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraf...alexander.html

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/f6f/25839.html

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Laurent

Yes, I certainly am. I am also aware of these two incidents but not in such detail. The 'famous pilot' mentioned was, if you don't already know, Pappy Boyington.

I am looking forward to your continuation of French friendly fire incidents from 1940!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Sgt Ronald David Baker 518293 buried in Letchworth cemetary, Hertfordshire, was a BoB pilot who was the victim of friendly fire. While on convoy patrol on 11/08/40 he was shot down by a lone Spitfire. He baled out but was dead when found. He was with 56 Sqdn.
Bev Webb

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks Bev - I do have note of that incident.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Norman

Do forgive me for not responding to your kind offer earlier! Yes, should you be able to obtain copies of those files, I would be eternally grateful. vI hope that I am not too late for you to do this for me.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Brian,

Just surfing the net and came across this incident.

Consolidated B-24D-15-CF Liberator 42-63970 (93rd BG, 330th BS) developed engine trouble right after takeoff Jan 31, 1944 and tried to return. Fearful of jettisoning bombs, crew headed the plane out to sea and bailed out. Plane smoothed out and continued to circle around for some time. RAF had to shoot the plane down.

It comes from here:

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1942_3a.html

Alex

Re: Friendly fire WWII

If you look at my recent posts, there is a case of 'friendly fire' there that you may be interested in.
Bev Webb

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Bev

I did acknowledge your contribution on Post 285! But thanks again, anyway

Hi Alex - thanks for that one - another wee dram I owe you!!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi guys

Sometime ago I posted details of a Lysander (T1456 from 148 Squadron) shot down in error by a P-51 some 30 miles north-east of Venice on 22/11/44. It now transpires that the errant pilot was a black American, so presumably from either 322 FG or 99FS. Has anyone unit records that may provide more detail?

Cheers
Brian

Another pacific case

By late November 1943, the 9th FS was declared as operational (after receiving P-47). The commanding officer of the 9th, Maj. Jerry Johnson, would get the squadron's first victory with the P-47. Yet, it was a victory that should have been passed up. Taking an opportunity to fly with Kearby's 348th FG, Johnson accompanied them on a sweep over Finschhaven (New Guinea). Spotting a radial engine aircraft flying about 3,000 feet above the jungle canopy, Johnson raced down and put a burst into the plane's engine. A parachute was observed.

Upon his return, Johnson was deeply disturbed to learn that the radial engine aircraft was not Japanese. Johnson had shot down an RAAF artillery observer flying an Australian built Wirraway (the Wirraway was essentially, a modified North American BT-9 which was the predecessor of the AT-6 and SNJ advanced trainer. Wirraways were built, under license, by Australia's Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation). The pilot of the Wirraway had escaped serious injury. Nonetheless, he was sufficiently rattled and angered to file a complaint with the 5th Air Force command. Johnson, in a successful effort to make amends, hand carried a case of bootleg gin to a very forgiving Flight Officer R.M. Stewart. 5th Air Force legend has it that General Kenney personally provided Johnson with the alcoholic bribe.

Source:
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Sev...Republic6.html

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Many thanks Laurent

Trust you are well.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

12 May 1941, in Iraq

An He.111 bearing Major Axel von Blomberg, the newly appointed liaison officer to Rashid Ali and the son of the German field-marshal, had come in to land at Baghdad. As the aircraft flew in low over the north bridge some irresponsible tribesmen fired off a few pot-shots with their rifles. When the reception-party at the airport opened the door of the aircraft they found, not the vigorous adviser and coordinator they had expected, but a dead German with a bullet in his head.

Source:
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/U...-RAF-I-11.html

Brian, I should have the time to send you more about the French cases in the end of the week.

Re: Friendly fire WWII

And here are the pics of Willi Reschke´s Me-109G-6

Roman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six Nifty .50s (Post 14939)

A few more personal remembrances from those at the sharp end...

29 August 1944
Bf 109G of JG 302 was shot down by a German fighter from the same unit:

"... Once again I was in the first wave, and again the B-17s opened fire very early ... my first burst was directed at the tail gunner: he had the widest field of fire to the rear and was the greatest threat to me ... Although I had not yet completed my attack and my rounds were dead on target, tracers from the man behind me were passing close to my Bf 109. Then the inevitable happened: there were several hard blows in the rear of my machine. I had been hit by one of my own people and I knew that I had to go down ... my tail surfaces had been badly damaged. The aircraft was extremely nose heavy ... My forced-landing took place near Ungarisch-Brod in the Banor area of Moravia. I never did discover the identity of the impatient comrade whom I had to thank for the subsequent train ride ..."
Willi Reschke
I. Gruppe/JG 302

2 March 1945
Now flying Ta 152H fighters with the high-altitude Staffel of JG 301, the same pilot recounts how they were misidentified and attacked by Bf 109s from his own outfit:

"... On this day the newly formed IV./JG 301 flew its first major mission against enemy bombers as part of the Geschwader. Equipped with the Bf 109 G-10, those Staffeln initially caused some confusion. III. Gruppe ... put a mixed group of fighters in the air, twelve Ta 152s and about the same number of Fw 190 A-8s and A-9s. The Ta 152s, which were led by Oberleutnant Stahl, climbed to altitude very quickly and flew far above the rest of the formation ... flying at a height of over 8,000 meters, and there they encountered a formation of Bf 109s. The pilots of the Ta 152s were certainly not upset by this unexpected reinforcement, especially as the aircraft wore the same yellow and red fuselage band.
But seconds later we could not believe our eyes: the group of Bf 109s opened up on us and the first tracers flashed by. Unteroffizier Blum was the first to be attacked, and his immediate warning made us realize the situation we were suddenly in. There was immediate confusion and the radio traffic that followed did nothing to change the situation. The leader of the Ta 152 Staffel received the order to 'Climb up and stay with the formation!' But even this did no good, for the Geschwader's own Bf 109s continued to pursue and attack. It was not possible to determine whether it was just Bf 109s of our own unit that were chasing us or if there were also fighters from other units. The Ta 152 pilots found themselves in a situation which words can scarcely describe: we were all fleeing from our own comrades, whom we did not want to shoot down. Many came to realize just how small and pitiful one feels when he is unable to defend himself. The Ta 152s were thus scattered to the four winds by our own fighters and took no further part in the mission ... "
Willi Reschke
III. Gruppe/JG 301

See p.146-147, 228-230, Reschke, Willi. Jagdgeschwader 301/302 "Wilde Sau" (Atglen, PA: Schiffer Books, 2005).

* * *

18 September 1940
RAF Spitfire R6772 was shot down by a Spitfire over Canterbury:

"... I'm quite sure it was another Spitfire that did me in. Because I saw this other aircraft and I turned to display my wing plan, which is the obvious one because the 109s had straight-edged wings cut off at the tips and the Spitfire had this elliptical wing, so that it was an instant recognition for him. So I let him see it. But it was too late and he shot off his bolt, and it hit me in the petrol tank. The only thing to be done was get out of the barbecue as quickly as possible. The flames were coming out and sort of burning off my uniform, and a bit of me in the process. And the next thing I knew I was floating down through the air without an aircraft ..."
Iain Hutchinson
222 Squadron, RAF

See video interview from the television documentary series Spitfire Ace (2000).

* * *

15 October 1940
RAF Spitfire X4418 was shot down by a Spitfire over Maidstone:

"... I was shot down at the end of a battle -- and by a Spitfire! This actually happened quite often -- a Spitfire shooting down a Spitfire. With inexperienced chaps and the sky full of planes, there wasn't all that much difference between our fighters and theirs at certain angles. We camouflaged the planes at first, trying to make the wretched things invisible, but then our own anti-aircraft guns used to go for us, so we gave them a more spectacular underside. The incident in question happened over Maidstone on October 15, 1940. There had been an engagement and I was gliding back to Biggin Hill after using up all my ammunition ... I throttled back at about 25,000 feet. There was nothing in the sky except three Spitfires behind me. Then suddenly -- bang! The aeroplane was full of holes. I was bloody indignant I can tell you. All at once I realised, 'Christ! I've got to bail out!' I had a bullet through one leg and my controls had gone. I had to get out!
As I was parachuting down I remembered that I was wearing a German Mae West! It was one that had been taken from a crashed plane -- they were a sight more comfortable than ours. At that I began to get very worried. There I was dangling on my parachute going down outside Maidstone, and I could see a crowd gathering below. What if someone decided to take a shot at me, I thought! I believe there were instructions then to the Home Guard on how to deal with parachutists -- apparently some of the Germans were coming down disguised as nuns! So one instruction said, 'In order to ascertain sex of the parachutist, put hand up up skirt.' Those were certainly desperate times! Anyhow, I landed safely, and the crowd soon realised from my language that I was English. In fact, as I said, it was by no means uncommon to be shot down by your own planes. I could name you a half dozen who were -- the commander of Biggin Hill for one. And another chap I know of was deliberately shot down and killed by his own squadron. They didn't like him, apparently ..."
Brian Kingcombe
92 Squadron, RAF

See p.72-74, Haining, Peter, ed. The Spitfire Log: A 50th Anniversary Tribute to the World's Most Famous Fighter Plane (London: Souvenir Press Ltd., 1985).

* * *

May 1941
RAF Blenheims and FAA Fulmars were attacked by British Navy AA fire:

"... On Crete, we spent most of our time escorting convoys -- and I think I am right in saying that we never lost a ship. Escorting the Navy with fighter Blenheims was not funny, we looked too much like Ju88s. Despite approaching the convoy into the sun, line astern, undercarriage down, at 1,000 feet ahead of the convoy, furiously firing off the colour of the day, they still plastered us. And the sight of a cruiser such as HMS Carlisle letting rip with all its guns was not a pretty sight if you were on the wrong side of the barrel. It became quite dangerous ... we had one more go when the Fleet Air Arm, who had a couple of Fulmars there, said they would lead us out to a big convoy which had eight destroyers as escort, saying, "They never shoot at us". They did, and the Fulmars high-tailed it for home and were never seen again. In another incident, Flt Sgt Innes-Smith, flying a Blenheim, having established his identity with the convoy he was protecting, was turning to intercept an oncoming Dornier Do 17 onto which he had been 'vectored'. As he was closing to attack he was hit and nearly shot down by RN AA fire. Fortunately he just managed to crash-land back at Maleme! ..."
John Jarvis
30 Squadron, RAF

See p.60, Forty, George. Battle of Crete (London: Ian Allan Publishers, 2001).

* * *

September 1943
USAAF A-36 fighter-bombers were attacked by British Navy AA fire and FAA Seafires during the Salerno landings; U.S. ground troops attacked by their own fighters:

" ... We took off from our landing ground at San Antonio, Sicily, at first light on 9 September 1943. Our assignment was to fly the Salerno-Agripoli patrol line as soon as we reached the beachhead. We proceeded to the north end of Salerno and then turned south ... About this time the sky turned white beneath me. The British Navy had fired a barrage of 40mm guns at us. At this time, Buzzy Sheftel, the controller on duty aboard the aircraft control ship, called me and said that our ships were firing at us. I replied to Buzzy that I knew that and that I thought I would move over and fly where the Germans were because the shooting was not as intense over there! ...
We had suspected that the British would be 'trigger happy'. During the Battle of Britain, the square wing tipped airplanes were the Me 109s and the round tipped airplanes were the Spitfires and Hurricanes. That thought was ingrained into the minds of the British. In 1943, the Me 109F and -G had round wing tips, the A-36A had square wing tips. Prior to the invasion of Salerno, we had sent an A-36 to Malta for the British to see. We had hoped they would realise that square wing tips were on our side now. We found out that it was the British Navy's policy to shoot at all airplanes that flew overhead. We did not receive an order or letter to that effect; we found out by getting shot at! We learned quickly...
Some British carriers were providing Seafire aircraft for the patrol line between Salerno and Capri. They lasted about a week! Word was that they damaged all of their aircraft trying to land on the carriers. They spent most of their time when they were aloft, attacking the other Allied aircraft which were also on patrol. At first, we took evasive action. Later, because of their vague idea of what constituted a 'curve of pursuit', we did not pay much attention to them. We figured that they needed the practice but they never seemed to get themselves into a position where they could do damage to another aircraft! ...
As for getting shot at by the Royal Navy, we got shot at as often by our own troops and we shot and dropped bombs on our own troops quite often. One day in the spring of 1944, we got a message from our higher Headquarters. It pointed out that there had been thirteen instances in one day where our airplanes had shot at or dropped bombs on our own troops. The next person who did it would face a court-martial. The following day, there were fourteen instances where we shot up our own troops!
The outcome of our getting shot at by the Royal Navy was that we were ordered not to attack a ship at sea in the Mediterranean. During the winter and spring of 1943-44 the Germans ran small boats and Siebel Ferries up and down the west coast of Italy. The Navy did not attack them and we did not give a damn whether they did or not, because we just bombed them when they reached a port ... "
Joseph Kelly
27th Fighter Bomber Group, USAAF

See p.121-123, Smith, Peter. Straight Down! The North American A-36 Dive-Bomber in Action (Manchester, UK: Crécy, 2000).

Re: Friendly fire WWII

There appeared to be a policy amongst AA gunners that boiled down to: If it flies, it dies!

Re: Friendly fire WWII

The following was submitted by a forum guest:

This link is likely to be of interest to your 'friendly fire' pages which I was just looking at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/57/a8966857.shtml

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks Ruy, thanks Nigel

I would like to use this in my forthcoming book, perhaps Nigel will contact me.

Incidenally, the unnamed gunner was Flt Sgt T. Hayday (according to Chorley)

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Brian,

Unfortunately Nigel Whittingham, the author of the linked article, wasn't the one to forward the link.

Perhaps you can contact Nigel through the BBC site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/a...tml#usecontent

"If you wish to use the content in a commercial context (eg a publication, CD or website the public needs to pay for to obtain, or a project such as a broadcast series or film), please contact the BBC to obtain permission. Use the Contact Us link on the left hand side of the page to do this."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/feedback/

Looks like the BBC claims all legal ownership.

Good luck.

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Dear Brian,

The latest issue of the Canadian Aviation Historical Society journal, Volume 44 No. Four, Winter 2006, published an article, "Hampden Ops with 44 Squadron RAF" by W. J. Lewis DFC, W/lC RCAF (retired).

On page 127 the author states.
"Late in December (1939), we were sent out with 49 Squadron from Scampton to search for the German navy up the coast of Norway. We found nothing. We were operating as a wing led by the Commanding Officer of 49 Squadron (also flying Hampdens). Coming back he led us right into the middle of a big thunderstorm. Our squadron commander and his navigator decided to detour around the thunderstorm. When we reached the other side, 49 Squadron had disappeared. We found out later they had turned south and made a landfall in that direction. We went in through the Firth of Forth where we were met by three Hurricanes from 111 Squadron, who recognized our colours of the day. Waggling their wings, they turned away and flew off. They were followed almost immediately by 12 Spitfires of 603 City of Glasgow Auxiliary Squadorn, who didn't recognizes the colours--they waded in and shot down two of our Hampdens.

Fortunately, ten of us escaped and landed at a fighter base. We sat in their officers' mess with the station commander standing in the middle, seeing that neither side got at the other.

Yours very truly,
Norman Malayney

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks Norman

I do have an account of this tragic incident but not first hand, as such. Thanks for your time and consideration. Incidentally, it was 602 Squadron that was involved, not 603 Squadron. One crew member from one of the downed Hampdens was killed, the others rescued.

Wishing you all the best for 2007
Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

RAF 320 Sq Royal Dutch Naval Service

B-25C-10-NA FR142 NO-F

26-4-44 Hit by English fighter aircraft, emergency landing near Headcorn, Kent.

You'll probably have this one already. May be able to get more details from a couple of printed sources if you haven't.

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks Ruy

Yes, I do have that one well recorded, but it's nice to know that you and others are still contributing to my quest for friendly fire incidents.

Thanks again and Happy New Year

Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

A C-46 cargo transport was misidentified by a Spitfire pilot as a FW-200 "Condor" and shot down near Ireland during WWII (it was carrying 300 P-38 speed flaps modifications. The next P-38 shipment came by ship and it was sunk by a u-boat!)

Never heard of it.

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Brian
there were some Finnish plane losses to own ground fire, for ex. HC-459 (Hurricane Mk I) on 2 July 41, Finnish AA hit it but it got back to base but catch fire during landing and was written-off and on 11 June 44 DN-56 or -61 (Do-17Z), cannot remember which was shot down by Finns and which by Soviets, in both cases pilot and observer KIA and gunner and W/O survived.
There are also other cases for example the second FAF pilot KIA was shot down by own AA near Viipuri/Wyborg on 1 Dec. 1939 in FR-77 (Fokker D.XXI).

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Franek and Juha

Thanks for the latest gems - I am not aware of any of these so please provide more info if possible.

Thanks
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hello Brian
I'm rather busy now but I'll try to write down a few cases now and then.

So a bit more on the 1. Dec 39 case
Unit: Lentolaivue 24, the main fighter laivue/Gruppe of FAF at that time.
Pilot: kersantti( Sergeant ie 3 chervons) Matti Ensio Kukkonen *8 Nov. 1917 in Lahti
Kukkonen had scrambled with his leader vänrikki (the lowest officer rank) Puhakka (later one of FAF's top aces) from Immola at 14:00. Cloud base was at 300m and visibility was poor but the pair had succeeded to open fire several times towards SBs (Soviet twin engine bomber a bit like Blenheim). Because they were running short of fuel Puhakka decided to land nearer Suurmerijoki base. When they descented through clouds near Viipuri, Finnish AA opened suddenly fire and got a direct hit to FR-77 which plunged onto ice at Ronkaanlahti. The plane was crushed and Kukkonen died instantly. Crash-time 15:20.

The Winter War had began a day earlier and Finnish troops were nervous at that day, hitting 5 own planes on that day, one other pilot was wounded, kersantti Rimminen, but IIRC Rimminen was only lightly wounded.

On 17 May 1942 Kapteeni/Captain Antti Olavi Naakka * 21 Aug 1913 in Viipuri from Lentolaivue 30 was leading 6 Fokker D.XXIs in FR-164 to cover military funerals in Kotka (an important port in SE Finland).
After flying over Kotka the formation continued southwards and then turned left almost through 180 degree and so approached Kirkonmaansaari (an island on which there was IIRC a coastal artillery fort) from South. Suddenly Finnish 40mm AAA opened fire hitting FR-164 at rear fuselage and the Fokker crashed on the island and burned. Naakka died. Crash-time 12:15.

When the accident was investigated it appeared that the AAA troop had not got info on the flight but even so Fokker D.XXI was easy to recognize with its fixed landing gear.

Source: Jaakko Hyvönen's Kohtalokkaat lennot 1939-1944 Toinen painos (1st reprint) Hämeenlinna 2001 ISBN 952-5026-21-3

HTH
Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Many thanks indeed, Juha - excellent material. Completely new to me and an overlooked area of conflict on my part.

I appreciate the problem with finding time, but please don't forget!!

Best wishes
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hello Brian
More info on HC-459 (Hurricane Mk I) on 2 July 41
The plane was hit over Vainikkala , at the Finland's SE border.
Unit: the plane had belonged to 1./Lentolaivue 30, which had on 1st of July moved to Utti (in SE Finland) and transferred to Lentolaivue 32 as Osasto/Detachment Kalaja (Kalaja was the CO of 1./Lentolaivue 30), so on 2nd July it belonged to Osasto Kalaja/Lentolaivue 32 or more simply to Lentolaivue 32.
Pilot was kersantti/Sergeant (>>>) L. Suominen who was injured.
Source: KESKINEN STENMAN NISKA Suomen Ilmavoimien Historia 12 Englantilaiset Hävittäjät. Forssa 1985

Luutnantti (second lowest officer rank) Eino Luukkanen had to make a force landing on 18 Dec 1939 after he had got a rifle calibre hit on fuel tank while flying over Finnish Saarenpää coastal fortress. The transport and repairs of his Fokker D.XXI FR-104 took 1½ months. The story is told in his memoirs Hävittäjälentäjänä kahdessa sodassa on pp. 32 - 35 but because the book is published also in English as Fighter over Finland. The Memoirs of a Fighter Pilot (1963) I''ll not try to translate it. Anyway IMHO it's a good book and a good read. And Luukkanen was 3rd ranking Finnish ace who flew 441 combat sorties, more than any other Finnish fighter pilot. He was also the CO of the first Finnish Bf 109 unit.

Other cases next time
Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks again, Juha, most interesting.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hello Brian,
haven't have much time but checked the Dornier Do 17 Z case on 11 June 44. It was most probably DN-61 which was shot down by own AA. DN-61 was one of 6 Do 17Zs ordered to bomb attacking Soviet forces in Carelian Istmus in poor weather, claudbase 300m and visibility was poor. 3 Dorniers was lost. The two other to Soviet AA.

DN-61 of Pommituslentolaivue 46. Time around 14:00 at Kivennapa.
Pilot: luutnantti GRUNDSTRÖM, Kari Johannes Somero * 30.11.1911 Helsinki
Observer: vänrikki HOLMBERG, Keijo Aatos *12.8.1922 Nurmi
W/O: alikersantti KOLPPO, Jouko *25.12.1923 Kouvola
Gunner: alikersantti TERVO, Esko *19.4.1923 Oulu

In Hyvönen's book duties of Kolppo and Tervo are other way round as in Hämälänen's book lost list but because in Hämäläinen's book Tervo says that he was the gunner and Kolppo the W/O and also according to Hyvönen's book it was Kolppo who jumped from upper hatch (the way out for W/O, others used the lower hatch) I decided to put them to given positions.

Just before bombing the plane got several hits and fuel tanks caught fire. Pilot pulled the plane to steep climb and smoke filled the cockpit an some flames penetrated from the left wing into the cockpit. When W/O Kolppo openned the upper hatch as preparation for his jump flames filled the upper part of the cockpit. Tervo tried to open the lower hatch but it was stuck. Observer Holmberg came to help, he pulled the handle when Tervo jumped on the hatch. It opened and Tervo fell out. Both Kolppo and Tervo landed near each other between the lines. Tervo had slight burns but Kolppo's hands and face were badly burned and he was also wounded by groung fire while descending under parachute. But both were rescued by a infantry search party. Kolppo was send to hospital but Tervo went back to his unit and was flying missions within a few days time. Grundström and Holmberg didn't get ot and died when the Dornier crashed.

The Dornier was shot down by one of the 20mm Breda AAA troops of ItR 12 (AA Regiment 12). Hämäläinen writes that it was DN-61 which was shot down by own AA even if Hyvönen writes that DN-61 was hit by 40mm fire and that DN-56 was shot down by a 20mm hit into cockpit. Biaudet confirms that it was a 20mm Breda troop which shot a Dornier down and tells how the gun crew was at first satisfied when they hit the low flying "enemy" bomber but when the plane began to turn they saw the Finnish national markings on its wings and were horrified. I believe that Hämäläinen has checked the case, which should be possible because the Dorniers attacked singly and the error was noticed immediately and reported to the regiment. So most probably the friendly fire case was DN-61 even if there are some contradictions.

Sources: Jaakko Hyvönen's Kohtalokkaat lennot 1939-1944 Toinen painos (1st reprint) Hämeenlinna 2001 ISBN 952-5026-21-3
Bob Biaudet's Ohiampujat. Ilmatorjuntamiesten kokemuksia Jatkosodan ratkaisutaisteluissa. Juva 2002
Matti Hämäläinen's Pommituslentolaivue 46. 1. painos. Hämeenlinna 2005.

Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Juha - many, many thanks - excellent material, all completely new to me. Please keep it coming!

Cheers
Brian

PS: this is obviously reward for my meeting with an alleged former Finnish Olympic althete whom I met in Crete many years ago - the monetry exchange rate wasn't very good for him so I stood several rounds of drinks - mainly on his reputation! It wasn't you, Juha, was it?

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Brian,

How are you keeping track of everyone that has helped you your many projects for inclusion in the acknowledgements?

Just curious.

Stephen

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hello Brian
It wasn't me, at least I don't recall ;). But I have been on Crete twice, early 80s and in 89. I liked it very much. A place for me; sea, sun, mountains, ancient places, medieval fortresses and WWII places.

Cheers
Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Brian

Clear your PM box please.

Regards

Richard

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi BigVern

Ready and waiting!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian (Post 36167)

Hi BigVern

Ready and waiting!

Cheers
Brian

Cheers Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Richard

In the light of my research, perhaps you should advise your journalist contact not to make the mistake of naming the wrong person. Just a suggestion.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian (Post 36189)

Hi Richard

In the light of my research, perhaps you should advise your journalist contact not to make the mistake of naming the wrong person. Just a suggestion.

Cheers
Brian

Hi Brian

I've already passed on the info you sent with the pilot's name and aircraft serial and code (with the remark that it could have been re-coded) , plus the places to go to research RAF aircraft operations and histories (i.e. Kew, Hendon, IWM, etc).

Cheers

Richard

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hello Brian
I have slowly gone through FAF’s losses chronologically but have not yet find any new friendly fire cases, so to show You that I have not altogether forgot my promise I post this one from summer 44.

June 28 1944 around 14:00 MS-308 from Hävittäjälentolaivue 28 was shot down by own infantry during an air combat between 4 FAF M.S. 406s and 2 Soviet Airacobras in Eastern Karelia at Miinavaara. Pilot luutnantti Yrjö Vilhelm PULLIAINEN *28.4.1918 in Savonlinna was killed.

4 M.S. 406s took off for an interception mission to Juustjärvi at 13:20. The flight met 2 Airacobras and during the air combat Finnish infantry began shoot at a/c and hit with a 20mm anti-tank rifle (malli 20 L/39) Pulliainen’s plane. MS-308 dove straight to ground, exploded and began to burn.

Sources: Jaakko Hyvönen's Kohtalokkaat lennot 1939-1944 Toinen painos (1st reprint) Hämeenlinna 2001 ISBN 952-5026-21-3
Keskinen Stenman Niska: Morane-Saulnier M.S. 406 Caudron C.714. Forssa 1975. ISBN 951-9035-19-2.
Atso Haapanen’s Kesäsota. Suomen Ilmavoimien sotalennot kesällä 1944. Tallinna 2006. ISBN 952-5026-37-X

And to explain the background of the earlier June 11 1944 case.
Soviet Union had began their first Strategic Strike of summer 44, the second was the attack against German Army Group Mitte/Centre which began June 22, an attack against Finnish army in Karelian Isthmus on June 9th, with massive artillery and air attacks using some 1800 guns and some 1550 a/c. So Finns, also the AA units which were trying to protect Finnish field army, were under enormous pressure at that time.

And to add the case. Also 2 out the 3 surviving Do 17Zs of the mission were shot at by Finnish AAA without being hit. DN-63 even twice, by a 40mm gun on way in and by a 20mm gun on way out.
Source: Atso Haapanen’s Kesäsota. Suomen Ilmavoimien sotalennot kesällä 1944. Tallinna 2006. ISBN 952-5026-37-X

And to confirm my side note to Dec. 1st 1939 case. I came across my old note which says that kersantti Rimminen was only slightly wounded and was soon back to action.

Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks Juha for the latest - great stuff

Cheers
Brian