Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
 

Thank you for the correction, Andrey.

Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
 

Dear Dan,

I only have searchable data for Ju 88s from this list. The only Gen.Qu.6.Abt listings for Ju 88s at Armavir are Nos. 12, 13, and 16. The code for 13 is probably 9K+FN?. W.Nr. for Ju88s are possibly:
4(144077), 12(142254), 13(144018), 14(430322), 15(140371), 16(144070). 109s 19 and 20 are probably Bf 109
G-1s, not L.

Best Regards,

ArtieBob

Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
 

Hello Artie,



What is the info in Gen.Qu.6.Abt about Nos. 12, 13, and 16 in the list?
And whether the fate of 144110 and 144094 (Nos.7 and 5 in the list) is known?


Best regards,
Andrey

Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
 

Dear Bob,

Thank you for your comments. Fragments of fragments, as always with Luftwaffe research!

I have taken the opportunity to send you a question relating to the employment of the Ju 88 in 1942, prompted by my research relating to operations in the Mediterranean.

Kind regards,

Dan

Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
 

Dear Andrey,

Pardon the delay, I have been a bit under the weather!
The data from Gen.Qu.6.Abt.(mfm #7)-Vol.12 is as follows:
I have been clearing out my library and no longer have
an original copy, just what is entered in my data base,
there may be some data missing, particularly crew member
names.

12.2254 88 A-4 5. KG 76 4.11.42. 75% Fl.Pl. Armawir
Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12 KIA by Flak. 2 others KIA,
1 WIA. Roland, Fw. Anton Ru§land F

13.4018 88 A-4 II. KG 51 25.1.42 60% Fl.Pl. Armawir
Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12 Bombenwurf. Ru§land F

16.4070 88 A-14 7.KG 76 26.10.42 20% Armawir
Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12 Undercarriage damage.
Ru§land F

Since 4070 Ju 88 A-5 V4+CR was reported as 100% on 4.12.41,
it seems almost certain that the actual W.Nr. for 16.was
144070,a common mistake in the early days of the 6 digit
W.Nr.use.

I have no other entries for either 144094 or 144110, so
it is possible they were abandoned at Armawir.

Best Regards,

ArtieBob

Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
 

Dear ArtieBob,

thank you!

This is a report about destruction of Armawir airbase:
http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/842991/zooms/8
http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/842992/zooms/8
http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/842993/zooms/8
http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/842994/zooms/8

The sentence «… sowie durch Bomben- und Bruchbeschädigte Flugzeuge ausserden rot angehakten 5 Stück Ju88 wurden durch Sprengung und Feuer zerstört» (page 2, paragraph 4) is unclear. At first I have read «ausserden» as «ausserdem». But maybe it should be «ausser den», so «rot angehakten» Ju88s weren’t destroyed but flew away or abandoned without destruction?

This is a list of the planes flew away from Armawir:
http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/837254/zooms/8
The date typed as 21.Jan.43. But Hptm Lassen had referred to this list (page 2, next-to-last paragraph) during description of 22.Jan.43 events, not 21.Jan. And Ju88s are absent in the list.

Maybe German forum participants can help with resolving?

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
 

“Außer den rot angehakten Ju 88” can mean “apart from the Ju 88s ticked/checked in red”, so I guess that it’s a reference to ones on a list, some of which have a red mark against them.

Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
 

Hello Nick,

no doubt it is a reference to red marked Ju88s. But still unclear what means erratic word "ausserden": "aussrdem" or "ausser den".

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
 

Well, I suspect it was meant to be "ausser den" [= apart from the …] because "angehakten" would then follow grammatically. But—if I remember correctly from school—that form of the adjective (dative plural) wouldn't follow from "ausserdem". This is where we need a real German speaker!

Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
 

To me it's pretty clear, all of the aftermentioned damaged aircraft were blown apart except from the 5 Ju 88's, and I think the red marking refers to the 5 stars which can seen on the map in the southern part of the airfield, those are the only markings which do not show a destroyed structure. Either that or there are pages missing from the document !