Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

15Jul41 14:55 Defense of Hango: Ivan Savelyevich Kozlov (Order of Red Banner), Flight Commander of 13 IAP VMF was flying a I-153. Alexei Kasyanovich Antonenko (HSU) and Peter Antonovich Brinko (HSU) observed Kolzlov's plane heading head on towards them and believed it to be a Finnish fighter. They fired at it and Kozlov was shot down and killed. Antonenko was KIA 26Jul41 and Brinko was KIA 14Sep41.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Many thanks Nokose - more 'new' formation for my book.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi guys

Recently I have seen reference to a combat that apparently occurred between Spitfires from 154 Squadron and US fighters, obviously in the Mediterranean theatre of ops. Can anyone elaborate, please?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

28Oct43: Mladshy Leytenant Vasilii Ivanovich Gilizidinov of the 57 BAP was returning from a bombing mission on "Nadvin". Yak-1 approached his Boston III and suddenly opened fire on it. Damage was done to the motors and rudder. The Yak-1 had ID#106 and rolled over diving away steeply. Gilizidinov ordered the crew to bail out. Gilizidinov then forced landed the Boston near "Loyeva". The escort for the 57 BAP had been Yak-1's who had been separated in a dogfight with FW-190's. Nothing about what happen to the Yak pilot or why it happened.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Many, many thanks Nokose - please keep the snippets coming!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

It seems unbelievable that a fighter that approached near enough to the Boston to be IDed by its a/c number would attack an a/c that it was escorting. I wonder if an Fw 190 carried out the attack on the Boston, and the a/c number was misread, thus making it an unfriendly fire incident.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

It does seem strange but it might have been a captured Yak like was described in "Dragons on Bird Wings". If not I wouldn't want to be the the Yak pilot.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

George, I wasn't to far off with my last post about the Yak-1. I read a VVS fighter pilot story of his describing a "Pawn" Yak-1 flying in the area of Army Group Center with no red stars on the plane in the same time period. So that shoot down might be Luftwaffe related.

Another friendly fire on 11Aug41 involving a raid on Berlin by TB-7's. Lt. Boris Afanasyevich Kubyshko's (420 DBAP) TB-7 was shot down returning to base by an I-16 of the KBF. Christer Bergstrom's volume 1 of BCRS has the same incident and another relating to 2 TB-7's shot down by friendly AAA and the the C.O. of 81 AD kolberg Mikhail Vodopyanov being jumped by fired on by I-16's with no damage.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Nokose - I can only repeat - Many Thanks indeed for your continuation in providing these further friendly fire incidents - everyone a gem.

Cheers
Brian

PS: I haven't a copy of Christer's Volume One (I wish I had!). Are you able to elaborate, please?

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

According to this webspage, 3 Soviet bombers were shot down by friendly fire this night (11-12 August 1941):

http://zhukov.mitsi.com/sovietbombers.htm

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian
are You interested in a case of “friendly” bomb hits on a plane in same formation. The plane was not lost but the fastest man to obey pilot’s bale out order became a PoW. To me it is a little different to “friendly” fire cases which almost all were results of mistaken identity.

Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Yes please, Juha!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Brian,

11th November 1944 brought an unfortunate case when the 43 Sqn were set upon by six USAAF Mustangs. Leading six Spitfires from No.43 Sqn on an area cover over Padua, the WinCo W/C Ernie Wootton DFC found his a/c being bounced by the P-51. Splitting the formation up, he ordered "Don´t shoot" as it became a case of every man for himself in a game of survival.
Fortunately, the unidentified Mustangs broke off the attack, but not before the Spitfires flown by F/Ls Creed and Cummings had been badly shot up. Creed had managed to c/l PV667 on the aerodrome at Rimini not badly hurt, but Cummings´ Spitfire PT585, was seen to going into a dive and it was later learned that he had been killed.

Regards,
Michal

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian,

I am new here, and I am a fanatic R(adio) C(ontrolleed) scale modeller, specialy Warbirds.
Most of my Warbirds I have build from own plan, and was 6x European Star Cup Champion.

- 4x with B-17 (scale 1:8, span 4 meter, engines: 4x fourstroke 7,5cm3).

- 2x with P-61 (scale 1:6,6,span 3,10 meter. 2x fourstroke V-twin 40cm3.)

-Runner-Up with Short Sunderland(1:10,span 3,45m.4x twostroke 7,5cm3)

Perhaps it has been already posted here, but a P-61 did shoot down a
B-29 at June 1. 1945.

regards,
Jan, the flying Dutchman from the Netherlands.



B-17 Flying Fortress
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/B-17/026.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/B-17/028.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/B-17/046.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/B-17/048.jpg
P-61 Black Widow
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/P-61/065.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/P-61/066.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/P-61/105.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/P-61/098.jpg
Short Sunderland flying Boat
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...erland/026.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...erland/027.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...erland/071.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...erland/073.jpg

for more see my homepage www.home.versatel.nl/jan.hermkens

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks Michal and Jan (fantastic site) but I do have these incidents already recorded.


Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Brian,

Do you need details about attack of the 312 Sqn Hurricanes on the 29 Sqn Blenheims on 13/10/1940 ?

Regards,
Michal

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

There are some documented cases when German Stukas and bombers hit German ground troops during the so called battle of Kursk. Does it count? :)

regards,
Pawel

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Yes thanks Michal I have details.

Pawel -are you able to provide details etc please?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Brian, of documented cases I am aware of - there is one incident of III./K.G. 55 dropping on own troops with detailed losses etc. from ground unit reports, one of Stukas knocking out SPW from Leibstandarte and Schlachtflieger damaging German armoured train. Will provide further details when back at home :)

regards,
Pawel

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

6/8/1943 T314-201-000441
Eisb.Pz.Zug 62 wurde am Abend des 6/8 mehrmals von eigenen Jagdflugzeugen auf Bhf. Solotschew angegriffen, dabei Verwundete und Ausfall eines Geschützes.

In this case I presume the a/c involved could be Fw 190 of Sch.G. 1 from a/f in Charkow. Although I have no 100% proof.


11/7/1943
1310 bei der Stuka-Unterstützung (Panzergruppe LSAH) auf die Swch. Oktjabrskij versursachen eigene Bomben den Verlust eines SPW mit Besatzung, obwohl der Stuka-Leitoffizier im SPW des Btl.Kdr. mitfuhr. / Qu. Geschichte LSAH
Tagesmeldung LSAH - eigene Bomben auf SPW-Btl. verursachten Verluste.

The unfortunate Stukas were probably from St.G. 77, there could be only one other Stuka unit in question - St.G. 2, but its operations on that day are reasonably well covered.

As for the 3rd incident I have to do some work on it to compile the information from several sources, and I am currently preoccupied taking care for my two baby dogs ;)

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thought some of you may be interested in seeing the attached pictures. They are two of a series of pictures showing a B-17 out of formation being hit by a bomb from the B-17 above. The date on the photos is October 24, 1944. The pictures were taken by the photo officer (my Grandfather) who was in the 457th BG.

-Eric Zemper

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Just one accident locally -
22/6/41 at Wollaston Northants, England, Manchester L7314 of 207 Sqdn, Waddington, Lincs was shot down by a Beaufighter of 25 Sqdn, Wittering.
dakota.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Zemper and Dakota

Apologies for the delay in thanking you for your input but I have been away for a few days.

Keep 'em coming!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian
In Finland we have saying ”better late than never” so here the story of the Do 17Z hit by ”friendly” bombs.
Date: 30.09.1942 after midnight
A/c: DN-52 (Dornier Do 17 Z-3 W.Nr. 2608 ) / LeLv 46

Four DNs of LeLv 46 has taken off from Noljakka a/f to bomb Sekehe a/f in East-Karelia when the accident happened. The target was under fog so the leader kapteeni (Captain) Uotinen ordered attack against the secondary target, Murmansk railway North of Sekehe. The four bombers approached the new target at 1400m in line formation and DN-52 was the last one. Its observer luutn. Kaarlo Mauno Holger RUNDQVIST (* 20.05.1920 in Viipuri) dropped the bombs and the pilot luutn. Jorma Turpeinen pushed the plane in a shallow dive. Then he unexpectedly shouted “Bail out!”. A moment later the plane rocked violently and something crashed into nose and howling air stream filled the cockpit. The observer Rundqvist, who was nearest to the bottom hatch, immediately opened the hatch and jumped. The pilot opened his harness and moved towards the hatch and saw that Rundqvist’s parachute opened when W/O kers. (Sgt) Osmo Rautavaara shouted that they were too low for jump and shouted that Turpeinen ought to pull the stick. Turpeinen went back to his seat and pulled and the Dornier straightened out. Then the gunner alik (Corporal) Väinö Nousiainen acknowledged than also he was still in plane. The air stream had pinned him down and he had been unable to bail out. After minutes silence Turpeinen told to others that their plane had not hit by AA but by two 50kg bombs. The nose was smashed and there was a big hole in the right wing. Engines worked normally but all maps had gone. All they could do was to take a rough course to West. Turpeinen decided to break radio silence and ordered the W/O to inform the leading plane. So Rautavaara send the message:”Arska (the pet name of the W/O in the leading plane), here Osku” (pet name of Rautavaara). Answer came fast “Cannot be Osku, he is dead.” In the leading plane they believed that DN-52 had crashed and the message was some sort Soviet trick. Rautavaara answered:”We will follow behind, we have some damage. Over” When they got nearer a bigger base Onttola Turpeinen suggested to others that they should bail out and that he would try to land the plane alone but the other refused. And so they made a normal landing at Onttola base. Later a Soviet PoW told to Finns that Rundqvist had survived and was held in a PoW camp. Rundqvist returned to Finland after war on 26.12.1944. When the crews figured how DN-52 had gone under the Dornier front of it they draw a conclusion that Rundqvist had dropped DN-52’s bombs before the observer of the Dornier in front had dropped his. When Turpeinen had after Rundqvist’s “Bombs away” had followed the normal procedure and pushed the plane in a dive DN-52 had moved under slower moving DN-54.
It took a little over 2 weeks to repair the damages in DN-52.


Sources: Jaakko Hyvönen's Kohtalokkaat lennot 1939-1944 Toinen painos (1st reprint) Hämeenlinna 2001 ISBN 952-5026-21-3
Matti Hämäläinen's Pommituslentolaivue 46. 1. painos. Hämeenlinna 2005.
Pertti Manninen: Dornier Do 17 Z tuttu tuntematon in Suomen Ilmailuhistoriallinen Lehti 4/2006

Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Juha

Many thanks indeed - we have the same saying in England!

What's Finnish for 'Cheers' ?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Dear Brian,

9 April 1945 loss of a 25th Bg Mosquito NS792 claimed to have been by FFAF P-51? The French AF did not operate any P-51s during WWII. I interviewed the navigator involved, and my work was pirated and appeared in another book with this error.

24 March 1945, loss of Mosquito NS635. Again I am the only individual to locate and interview the navigator before he died. The tail WAS NOT painted Red according to the navigator. Again my work was pirated and appeared in another book with this misinformation.

11 August 1944 Mosquito NS533. Again I searched and located the navigator who survived the incident. I interviewed him by telephone, and at the 25th BG reuinion in Kansas City, the navigator presented me with a full written account of the Frantic Mission and how he was shot down, and escaped from France with help of the Maquis. I still have all my taped telephone interviews and the orignal typed account by the navigator. Again my work was pirated and appeared in another book.

I obtained information from the USAAF P-51 unit that shot down the Mosquito, from Maxwell AFB. The person who pirated my work did not know where I obtained this information and gave reference to NARA, Washington, DC as the source.

The person who pirated my copyrighted work is currently deceased.

Norman Malayney

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

In December 1944 Lt Allen Burgham, Senior Pilot of 835 Squadron took off in ther twilight of an arctic "Day" to intercept 40 Junker's 88's attacking the convoy. Also taking off with him was Sub Lt "Dusty" Miller as Burgham's Number two. Darkness came quickly and they were in poitch black conditions in day fighters (Wildcat VIs). They only caught glimpses of the enemy flying in low at less than 500 feet. They managed to disrupt the torpedoe runs and not one ship was hit. However they were left up there and in serious trouble flying only on instruments and with no help. Burgham flew for over an hour and a half and was directed by the fighter direction officer of the ship. It was problematic because they were giving him directions relative to the ship - not to him. Fianlly after all that time he maaaaade it back only to be faced with a wall of tracersd from most of the ships in the convoy. Finally the shooting was ended by the Admiral (McGrigor). The exhausted pilot landed in total darkness (he received the Distinguished Service Cross for his gallant actions and was written up in London's newspapers. The Admiralty called it "a magnificent piece of workj" as he became the first man in history to land a day fighter at night (onto a 68 foot wide deck)

When he lanmdfed he was hit with a sea of angry piloits. They had seen Miller coming up the sea lane approachiung the ship. His undercarriage was down and his landing lights were on. he was waggling his wings. He was hit by a wall of fire from HMS Bellona. The navy never admitted that Miller was killed by friendly fire. But i9t is instructive to note that Rear Admiral McGrigor sent a sharp order to all ships to not fire on single engine aircraft. The enemy had two engines on thier planes and didn't fly with landing lights on and undercarriage down!

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Are you certain of this?

Red tails were standard in the 25th Bomb Group at that time because their planes had been attacked by friendly aircraft in the past. Even if Mosquito NS635 was a new arrival at their base, it seems unlikely that the group commander would risk sending it aloft without the usual tail ID markings.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks Norman, Robert and Six Nifty - much appreciated

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks Norman, Robert and Six-Nifty - very much appreciated.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

27Jul41 two SB's of the 202 BAP had made a recon. mission into Finland. On return NW of Vyborg they were attacked by MiG3's. Mayor Sergei Petrovich Sennikov made a force landing. Lt Fedurkin was killed but his crew parachuted to safety.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Many thanks Nokose, another new incident for my collection. I have to admit that I am 'light' on Eastern/Northern Front friendly fire incidents, so would be pleased to learn of any others.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi:

I'm trying to get more information on the following incident.

On July 20, 1943 three P40s of the USAAF strafed a Canadian Army site near Leonforte Sicily. A number of vehicles were destroyed, one Canadian killed and a number wounded. After suffering multiple attacks, the Canadians fired back, bringing down two of the P40s.

Would you have any information as to what unit the P40s were from and the fate of their pilots?

Thanks
Murray

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

08Jun44 St. Lt. Vaslii Ivanovich Arkhipov (8 victory Ace) of the 18 GIAP was returning from an attempt to intercept a FW-189. Lt. Maurice Challe of Groupe Normandie attacked the two Yak's approaching him head on believing they were German. The second attack by Challe brought down Arkhipov's Yak which resulted in his death.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but :

On 22/06/1941 : A. I. Pokryshkin (55 IAP) mistakenly shot down a Su-2, the Su-2s were unknown to the MiG-3 pilots of 55 IAP, and they at first didn't see the red stars.

Pokryshkin damaged one with a burst of machine-gun fire, but while turning away to reposition himself he remark the red stars on the light bombers, he then stopped the attack and gave warning to his wingmen by waving wings and firing short bursts in front of them.

The damaged plane force-landed and one crew member was wounded.

Even if this event was thereafter used against him by officers with which he had conflicts several times in 1941-1942, he wasn't charged nor sentenced as the crew of the Su-2 survived (all the more so in the confusion of 22/06/1941).

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Nokose and Kolya1 - many thanks for these - my collection of Eastern Front friendly fire incidents is far from complete. They all help fill the gaps, keep them coming, please.

Murray - I can't answer your query but will keep searching.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian
Cheers in Finnish, most usual expression maybe is Kippis.

It seems that there were no more fatal friendly fire cases or cases which caused bale-outs in FAF. Of course there were also friendly fire cases which caused only damage.

Have You interests on more details on Nissinen’s “victory” over LW’s Ju 188 on April 44? I assume that Your info on that is from the tread in Finnish Air Force in World War II site.

Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Dear Brain,

From the book, "Listen To Us", aircrew memories by the Aircrew Association of Canada, Vancouver Island branch, 1997, ISBN 0-9698699-4-0, pp-342-343, detailing recollections by Bill Shankland:

"When Bill left 407 Squadron he was posted to 1401 Meteorological Flight at Bircham Newton, flying Gladiators--biplanes, no less, but a delight to fly. One of the other aircraft on the station was a Spitfire V-D which sported only a small roundel and had no armament except a Very pistol and a Cambridge therometer. Having the range to go to Berlin and back, it was used to take photographs of Bomber Command targets for the coming night. The squadron also had a Blenheim Mark IV which flew out for 300 miles over the North Sea on a bearing of 030. Unfortunately a Whirlwind mistook it for a Ju88 and shot it down..."

Do not know if you are familiar with this incident?

Norman Malayney

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

That sounds like the end of Blenheim V5568 of the 1401 weather flight, last seen on 27th May 1942. Reputedly shot down in error by an RAF Whirlwind pilot from 137 Squadron. Flying Officer Marshall, Sergeant Thimblebee, and Sergeant Gray were never heard from again and reported MIA.

Found it in Graham Warner's fine study from Crécy Publishing. Unfortunately there were many known losses of Blenheims to own fire; I will list the whole lot when I finish reading it.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

My forthcoming book in this autumn, the 1/3. FS history will contains 3 friendly fire accidents as well (one was serious with a crashed plane and one KIA)