Hi,

this Ju 88 vertical stabilizer panel was sold today Sunday May 12, 2019 by Aiolfi Gbr/Caen Enchères for 4200 euros to Boris from St Petersburg (5460 euros with auction & internet fees, without shipping).


This Luftwaffe panel was part of the Jean-Pierre Chantrain Wavre museum collection.


http://www.aiolfi.com/vente/1279-ses...kers-allemand/

Lot n°695
Dérive avec victoires d’avion Junkers allemand

Dérive en aluminium, peinture présente à 80%. Insigne national à 80%. Trois victoires représentées par trois bateaux peint sur la dérive. Plaquette du fabricant ATG Allgemeine Transportanlagen Gesellschaft MBH Maschinenfabrik Lizenz Junkers. Numéro de série 8575-88A1, daté 9-40.Les dérives portant des victoires sont de la plus haute rareté. A noter une certaine patine de la pièce. Dimensions 60,5 X 121 X 105,5 cm. A noter une certaine usure et patine de la pièce. Photos supplémentaires sur www.aiolfi.com. Additional photos on www.aiolfi.com.

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Stef, another Belgian collector provided more info about this panel.
More than 20 years ago, he was able to check it in hands with 2 other similar panels.
The 3 panels came from Czech Republic.
He was not sure that this panel was legit, especially the very thin paint of the panel.


So i would be happy to get opinions from Ju 88 collectors about this panel...


See You


Vince


http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557693964

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557693964

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557693964
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557693964

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557694074

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557694074

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557694074

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557694074

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557694142

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557694142

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557694142

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557694142

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557694548

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1557694548

Re: Ju 88 vertical stabilizer : opinions needed
 

As I was a bidder for this panel in the recent auction I was of the firm belief that it was 100% legit as it clearly matched other Ju88 panels I had seen.

Stef has messaged me post-auction to convey his doubts also and I must admit I was surprised. If it is a fake, even a partial fake, then it is very well done.

I will add that the other Ju88 panel that I had seen sell in the past 2-3 years lacked the Junkers part number which this piece has affixed. Not sure if this one had it added to help convince people that it is original, who knows.

I have also been looking for period images of Ju88's and other German bombers with ship kill markings and most seem to show the kill markings do not cross from the vertical stabiliser to the rudder (i.e. not painted across the joint), even going so far as to paint across the swastika or on the rudder directly.

This is of course not categorical proof that it was not done any other way although I have so far been unable to find other examples to prove otherwise. The images are a mix of period shots (most of Werner Baumbach's Ju88) and some of model / profile drawings taken from period planes.

If anyone has other images showing ship kills I would love to see them...

https://i.postimg.cc/Tw39hggF/5bacec...04f5354e6e.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/mg3Nw8SK/23-0.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/MGd0kHND/122-20...7-original.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/PNsYbwvt/5815c2...12ee881c10.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/66DmbbdQ/588475...5325759ec6.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L5fNMRz8/image2.jpg

Re: Ju 88 vertical stabilizer : opinions needed
 

Hi Max, Can you comment on the fifth picture you have posted please? I am interested by the two tubes that can be seen at the base of the Ju88 tail in the picture, protruding backwards below the rudder. Are they gun muzzles?
Thanks!

SM

Re: Ju 88 vertical stabilizer : opinions needed
 

Flammenwerfer ...

Re: Ju 88 vertical stabilizer : opinions needed
 

I found some text related to that image with the flammenwerfer attachment.

" a highly unusual modification was carried by this Ju 88A-4 (9K+FB) werk-nr 1050 of II/KG 51 in rumania during 1941, the bomber was field modified with two flame thrower tubes mounted under the rudder. Altough successfully tested, the oil fed flame thrower never reached operational status on the ju88."

https://i.postimg.cc/RFm8jQ9k/flammewerfer-1.jpg

Learnt something new today...

Re: Ju 88 vertical stabilizer : opinions needed
 

What was the purpose of the flame thrower attachment? To attack ground targets or to scare pursuing fighter planes? From the photo, it looks unlikely burning oil reached the ground.
Richard

Re: Ju 88 vertical stabilizer : opinions needed
 

I believe it was to scare / deter pursuing fighters.

Re: Ju 88 vertical stabilizer : opinions needed
 

Hello Richard,

the cloud of soot should protect a bomber against fighter attack from behind obscuring the view of the fighter pilot and also completely cover the aircraft’s windscreen in soot, making the fighter blind.
The fifth picture shows the Ju 88 A-4 WNr. 1050. This aircraft was flown by the Gruppenkommandeur of I./KG 51 Hptm Heinrich Hahn. It was equipped with the flamethrowers in October/November 1941 during the Russian campaign.
On 3 Feb 1942 Hptm Hahn was killed during a courier flight when the plane crashed at the Tiraspol airfield in Moldavia. The flamethrower Ju 88 was completely destroyed.
Sources:
Luftwaffe im Focus Edition No. 19 „The Ju 88 Flamethrower Aircraft of I./KG 51“
Gen.Qu. loss return 19 Feb 1942 item 36.

Regards
Leo

Re: Ju 88 vertical stabilizer : opinions needed
 

Hi,


do you have any opinions on the structural construction of the panel ?


See You

Vince

Re: Ju 88 vertical stabilizer : opinions needed
 

For those of us--almost all of us--not registered at this auction site (and cannot see the photos), DIscoTraxxx, do you think you might want to post them?