Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

On that days morning, the VVS attacked the airfields in
Husi (20 IL2, 15 fighters) and
Roman (18 IL2, 15 fighters).

Several airplanes were damaged in Husi.

Who knows details? Should be SG2, maybe SG10, JG52, KG4...

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

Also afaik 6 planes were lost on 30th of May (while flying).

Maybe that can be traced?

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

... Or is anyone willing to share loss data from III./JG52, SG2, SG10, KG4, NAGr.14 or rumanian units in the timeframe 28.05-8.06.1944?

For the soviet side, I have some information already.

Also, anything on comat flight reports or such is wellcome... i.e. I got info that there were 1100 flights on 30th of May alone...

I found out that nearly all air battles in tha time were ca. 20-30km N of Iasi, where two small german ops intended a local improvement of teh defensive positions ("Katja" and "Sonja").

Somehow I feel that this forum does neglect my thread here :rolleyes:.

PS: I am slightly maniac'ed about this topic because of my year-long work on the map for IL-2 and I got some new infos which I hope to widen now.

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

Hi!

III./JG 52:

29.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
30.05.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, combat
31.05.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, combat
06.06.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, non-combat

I./SG 2

30.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
30.05.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, combat
31.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
06.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, combat

II./S.G.2

30.05.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, combat
31.05.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, combat
31.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
02.06.1944 2 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
02.06.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, non-combat
03.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
04.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
04.06.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, non-combat
05.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
06.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
06.06.1944 2 aircraft, damaged, combat

More this afternoon

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

Thank you! I will put here my data on I & II/JG52 and later will try to summarize and combine with ground ops.

Nearly all claims during these battles were made in locations "78 6xx" and "78 8xx". So far, this can be identified on the map below. An open point for me is the "xx" in these locations. Who knows how this can be interpreted?

A cutout of the 1943 Luftwaffe 1:300.000 map of the area:
http://i34.tinypic.com/j1604y.jpg

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

Losses of I/JG52:
29.05.1944 1 aircraft, damaged on landing
30.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, air combat (Uffz Lechner KIA)
01.06.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, non-combat ("tech. Mängel")
04.06.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, non-combat ("Betriebsstörung")
05.06.1944 2 aircraft, loss ?, non-combat ("tech. Mängel")
06.06.1944 2 aircraft, loss ?, 1x Motor, 1x combat w 8 P-39 "safe landing, Fw. Nordmann WIA"
09.06.1944 1 aircraft, loss ?, non-combat ("Betriebsstörung")

II/JG52 will follow soon.

One more thing:
On 1st of June, the Axis flew ca. 650 missions, again all in this small area...

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

OK, more summary losses:

I/J.G.52:
29.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, non-combat
30.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
01.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat (Fi 156)
01.06.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, non-combat
02.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
04.06.1944 2 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
05.06.1944 2 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
06.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, non-combat
09.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat

II./J.G.52:
29.05.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
30.05.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, combat
30.05.1944 2 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
31.05.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, combat
01.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
02.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, non-combat
03.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
03.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, combat
05.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat

III./S.G.2:
30.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
01.06.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, combat
01.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, non-combat
02.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
03.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
05.06.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, non-combat

I./S.G.10:
30.05.1944 4 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
31.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
31.05.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
01.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
02.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
06.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat

II./S.G.10:
01.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
04.06.1944 2 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
04.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
05.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
06.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat

III./S.G.10:
29.05.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
30.05.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
02.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
05.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
05.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, non-combat
06.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
06.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat

Stab/N.A.Gr.14:
29.05.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
29.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat

1./N.A.Gr.14:
31.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, non-combat

2./N.A.Gr.14:
29.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat

3./N.A.Gr.14:
05.06.1944 2 aircraft, damaged, non-combat
06.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat

Hope this is of interest.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

Superb, thank you! Slowly, I get the full picture concerning the german losses :).

If one imagines that one day there were 1.100 Luftwaffe flights over this small area... similar concentration of aircraft like Kursk (measured in flight per km frontline).

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

I have to "warm up" this thread...

Andreas, there is a discrepancy between your data and mine for the 6th of June: On that day, Fw. Nordmann from 1.Staffel was wounded and made a safe landing in Iasi after DF with 8 Airacobra. The plane was a 109G-6, WkNr 163018 W6 [Barbas, I/JG52].

Is it possible that such an incident would not be reported in your source?

Also, one more plea: Do you also have loss data of 10. & 12./SG9 (Hs129) and/or romanian units during the timeframe 29.5. - 8.6. 1944?

I.e., I read that romanian units lost 4 Ju87 on the 30th of May [Weal, Stuka units...].

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

Hi, Yogy.

No real discrepancy for 6.6.1944:

The unit reported one aircraft total loss without enemy action = probably landing accident or similar. In this accident the pilot sustained no injuries.

They also reported one pilot wounded in category 1-17 (= due to enemy action). As you stated yourself, this pilot landed his aircraft safely, and the damage to the aircraft would then probably be below 10% (shattered canopy or whatever, maybe you can add details??), and thus there will be no entry in the summary loss records for aircraft, but there IS an entry in the summary loss records for personnel (it would have appeared in the GenQu list of July 6th 1944 if it was available).

Did this clear things?

Regarding SG 9:

10.(Pz)/S.G.9:
01.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat

12.(Pz)/S.G.9:
No aircraft losses recorded during this period

Rumänische Stukagruppe:

30.05.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, combat
30.05.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, non-combat
31.05.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, combat (durch Flakbeschuß)
31.05.1944 2 aircraft, total loss, combat (durch Bordwaffenbeschuß)

Rumänische Jagdgruppe:

30.05.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat

Rumänische Schlachtgruppe:

31.05.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, combat
03.06.1944 3 aircraft, total loss, combat
03.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, combat06.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, combat

Rumänische Kampfgruppe:

03.06.1944 1 aircraft, total loss, non-combat
03.06.1944 1 aircraft, damaged, non-combat

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

Andreas, thanks a lot!

I also collected some bits from the VVS-side and try to write a small summry on these aerial and ground fightings.

During these 10days, the Luftwaffe & ARR flew up to 700 sorties per day over this 25km-wide strip of frontline... the intensity of the air battle must have been similar to some days at Kursk, although smaller and shorter in extension.

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

The air fighting was very intense indeed and the analogy with the Kursk battle fits to some extent. It is interesting, however, to compare the German claims to Soviet losses. Throughout the Kursk battle the German claims were almost at par with total Soviet losses which indicates very moderate overclaiming while troughout the Battle of Iasi the German claims were highly inflated. On 30 and 31 May German fighters reported 156 Soviet aircraft while 5 VA lost only seventy. Also, larger share of the claims was achieved by the top layer of the Jagdflieger than in the Battle of Kursk. For example, 21 out of 25 victories credited to III/JG 52 on 31 May was achieved by just three pilots : Batz, Hartmann and Birkner. So while the Iasi battle was without any doubt a victory for Luftwaffe when just comparing losses and victories it also showed that Jagdwaffe at that time was already a spent force on the Eastern front when compared to the Kursk Battle with ever shrinking number of aces bearing the brunt of the fighting.

Jan

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

Jan,

thanks for your input. I see it as as you said: The air battles definitely had a very positive result for the Luftwaffe in terms of kill-to-loss-ratio.

But when it comes to good protection of the ground forces, JG52 failed: I.e., several attack by Pe-2 dive bombers were conducted w/o fighter interference. A problem for the german air defence of 8.Armee was the scarcity of 2cm-ammunition, so that a lot of the numerous guns had to stay silent.

On the ground the targeted improvement of the "Brückenkopf Iasi" failed. The situation developed so bad that an operation further east at 6. Armee had to be cancelled because the Luftwaffe's support in the Iasi area had to be prolonged due to soviet counterattacks.

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

Hello Andreas,

sorry for requesting your help again... :o

There is a story about a Stuka being shot down in this timeframe N of Iasi. The pilot was able to bail out, while the Bordfunker died in the crashing plane. But another Stuka landed near the pilot on "the other side" of the frontline and saved the pilot.

Do you maybe know wether one of the above-mentioned Ju87 total losses is connected to "only" a KIA Bordfunker?

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

Hi, Yogy

I do not have access to the NVM's for these units so I cannot give you an exact answer.

But there are indications for several of the losses for III./SG 2 where I have one person KIA only for a loss of an aircraft.

Does not seem to apply for the dates listed.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Losses of FK I on 29.5.44
 

OK, thanks anyway for looking.

One more loss: Don't know exactly why we didn't look into 14./SG9, but their only loss in June occured on 2nd June:

Hs129B-2 100%, Flg. Bruno Nindler KIA, attacked by fighter(s) at Cucuteni, 15km W Iasi
Source: Martin Pegg, Panzerjäger.



So altogether we get 2 german and 4 romanians Hs129 listed as 100% loss during these operations.