Billy Drake
 

Hello there gentlemen,

in ACES HIGH Vol2 Christopher Shores adds two confirmed kills (6Jun42 & 31Oct42) to Billy Drake's kill list given in ACES HIGH Vol1. Thus, his score is said to increase from 18+2sh to 20+2sh.
However, in ACES HIGH Vol2 Drake's 26Oct42 kill is given the designation "Delete". What does that mean ?
(Deleting this kill would reduce his his total to 19+2sh).

Have a nice Friday,

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

TOTAL: 23 and 3 shared destroyed, 2 unconfirmed destroyed (early 1940 classification), 4 and 1 shared probable, 5 and 1 shared damaged in air; 15 destroyed, 1 probably destroyed and 2 damaged on the ground.

Billy Drake, Fighter Leader: The Autobiography of Group Captain B. Drake DSO, DFC & Bar, US DFC; Billy Drake with Christopher Shores; Grub Street 2002.

See Appendix II (pp 107-8).

Cheers,

Bruce

Re: Billy Drake
 

Hmm, that means Shores has approved the 24,5 kills reported by Drake himself.
Can you tell me how many of those were scored in the Hurricane/P-40/Spitfire ?

I wish you a good start into a successful new week,

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

Hello Michael
Shores et al A Hisrory of the Mediterranean Air War 1940-1945 Vol 2 (2012) mentions Drake's 26 Oct 1942 claim. Drake and P/O Wright each claimed a Me 109 shot down during an 112 Sqn escort mission (0900-0950) but of the attacking 109s only one was lost.

HTH
Juha

Re: Billy Drake
 

Good evening Bruce & Juha,

can you tell me how many kills of Drake's 24,5-kills-tally were scored in the Hurricane/P-40/Spitfire, respectively ?

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

Hello Michael
I have not got any better info than that in Christopher Shores' et al ACES HIGH and ACES HIGH Vol 2.

Juha

Re: Billy Drake
 

Hello Juha,
Drake's biography was published later.
Bruce, could you have a look ?

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

Michael: I will, but the book is packed away atm. I have to locate it first!

Bruce

Re: Billy Drake
 

Hello Bruce,

I'm looking forward to it.
Have a very nice weekend,

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

Michael, it is not necessary to repeat questions unless they were buried in older threads.

Re: Billy Drake
 

Good afternoon Bruce,

hope you had a good weekend.
Have you found the time to have a look in your Drake book ?

Greetings from Germany to Australia,

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

Hurricane: 5.5 destroyed, 2 unconfirmed destroyed, 1 probable

Kittyhawk: 18 destroyed (17 and 2 shared), 3 probable, 3 damaged, 13 destroyed on ground, 1 probable on ground, 2 damaged on ground

Spitfire: 1.5 destroyed, .5 probable, 2.5 damaged, 2 destroyed on ground

As you can see, I have arrived at 23 and 4 shared destroyed.

Re: Billy Drake
 

Dear Bruce,

thanks a lot for checking.
Thus, Drake's P-40 score is either

• 14 [13+2] of a total of 19 [18+2] according to Shores and Williams (1994),
• 16 [15+2] of a total of 21 [20+2] according to Shores (1999),
• 14 [13+2] of a total of 21 [20+2] according to Thomas (2002) or
• 18 [17+2] of a total of 25 [23+4] according to himself and Shores (2009).

Which is the most valid ?

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

Hello Bruce & Co,

can you tell me if Drake's total of 23+4sh kills given in the book of Drake/Shores was officially acknowledged by the RAF ?

Kind regards,

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

Michael,

Really wouldn't have the foggiest. However, you might try checking his award citations at the London Gazette.

Cheers,

Bruce

Re: Billy Drake
 

Good afternoon Bruce,

do you mean this one ?
http://www.tracesofwar.com/persons/4...rake-Billy.htm

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

Yes Michael, that references the gazette.

BTW I don't think I can give you any more help with this thread. Good luck!

Bruce

Re: Billy Drake
 

Good morning,

I'm considering contacting the Air Historical Branch to ask if there is an official score list of the RAF.
https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...f-information/

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

...according to Hall (2001) his total was 20+2sh.

Re: Billy Drake
 

Good luck with the AHB. They are over worked and understaffed and even then I am not sure if they have the definitive information albeit they have a wartime carded system of claims. Not sure if this included North Africa

Re: Billy Drake
 

Good evening Chris,

sounds like the German hospitals. I wrote them. Let's see what happens.

I wish you a good start into the weekend,

Michael

Re: Billy Drake
 

This is what they answered:
__________________________

Dear MrMichaelZeh,

Thank you for contacting The National Archives of the United Kingdom.

I'm afraid we cannot answer questions of historical fact or interpretation such as this. Our enquiries service exists primarily to provide advice on what records we hold and how you can access them. Of course, we are happy to provide any facts that we already know that may help users of the records to better understand and interpret them but we are unable to provide research to find facts that we don’t know – I’m afraid this is one of those instances.

RAF Officers service records post 1922 are held by the
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
You will need to contact Veterans UK to access the record by going to the
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
website. Access to the service records of people who are still alive or, to a lesser extent, who died recently, is restricted. This is explained in more detail on the GOV.UK website.
I’m sorry we can’t be of more help.

Yours sincerely,

[...]

Remote Enquiries Duty Officer

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk