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USAAF Beaufighters
Good morning Gentlemen,
from David Jackson I learned that this table http://warbirdsandairshows.com/aircr...torieswwii.htm is based on “Victory Roll –The American Fighter Pilot and Aircraft in WWII” by William Wolf. I've had a closer look at the USAAF Beaufighter kills: 25 in the MTO and 6 in the ETO. However, by counting the Beaufighter kills listed elsewhere I have found a total of 32:
Cheers, Michael |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Michael,
Tried to give full answer by lost it, will have to write it out and copy/paste it. Will do later on today. Quick answer is that I have 414 - 14. 415 - 11. 416 - 7. 417 - 8. See here for Victory Credits WW2 http://www.afhra.af.mil/Portals/16/d...090601-121.pdf The only Groom or Roth in the above list are - Groom - 48FS - MTO Roth - 80FS - SWP Alex |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Michael,
414th NFS 27/07/43 - Capt. Charnley K. Atwater (P). 27/07/43 - F/O. David L. McAbee (R/O). 29/07/43 - Lt. George J. Holbig (P). 29/07/43 - F/O. Irving Wohl ( R/O). 18/08/43 - Capt. Earl T. Smith (P). 18/08/43 - (R/O) ? 26/11/43 - 2Lt. Francis B. Clark (P). 26/11/43 - Lt. Abraham M. Goodman (R/O). 26/11/43 - Lt. Allemande. This claim was for an He177 into the sea. On 17/07/50 Capt. Clark claimed a Yak 9 while flying in an F-80. 23/01/44 - 1Lt. James R. Anderson (P). 23/01/44 - F/O. John A. Armstrong (R/O). 23/01/44 - Jack Gamble (P). 23/01/44 - Joe Owen ( R/O). The above two crews jointly claimed a Do217. 23/01/44 - F/O. Clyde W. George (P). 23/01/44 - F/O. Herbert C. Penn (R/O). This claim was for an He177K , Oblt. Georg Dietrich of KG40 off Corsica at 1750 hrs, a/c dived into the ground. 23/01/44 - 1Lt. Albert L. Jones (P). 23/01/44 - F/O. John Rudovsky (R/O). This claim may well be in error as it matches that of the 23/12/44 below ? 06/08/44 - Capt. John F. Patterson (P). 06/08/44 - Lt. Roy E. Patton (R/O). This claim was for a Ju88 into the sea. 23/12/44 - 1Lt. Albert L. Jones (P). 23/12/44 - F/O. John Rudovsky (R/O). This claim was for a Ju87 of NSG 9, and was the Squadrons last Beaufighter claim. 04/02/45 - 2Lt. Orin K. Goodrich (P). 04/02/45 - 2Lt. Raymond J. Lane ( R/O). 07/04/45 - 1Lt. Albert L. Jones (P). 07/04/45 - 2Lt. John Rudovsky (R/O). 08/04/45 - 1Lt. Albert L. Jones ( P). 08/04/45 - 2Lt. John Rudovsky ( R/O). 09/04/45 - 1Lt. Robert P. Lutz (P). 09/04/45 - 2Lt. Wallace A. Morrissette ( R/O). 10/04/45 - 1Lt. Thomas J. Greenfield (P). 10/04/45 - 2Lt. Joseph E. Swartz ( R/O). Alex |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Michael,
415 NFS 24/07/43 - Capt. Nathaniel H. Lindsay (P). 24/07/43 - F/O. Austin G. Petry (R/O). Claim was for an He115. 16/08/43 - Lt. Robert E. Walber (P). 16/08/43 - F/O. Emmett B. Raison ( R/O). Claim was for a Can't. Z1007. 07/02/44 - 1Lt. Charles F. Horne (P). 07/02/44 - 2Lt. Richard F. Ulrich (R/O). 18/03/44 - Maj. Nathaniel H. Lindsay ( P). 18/03/44 - F/O. Austin G. Petry (R/O). 27-28/09/44 - Capt. Harold F. Augspurger (P). 27-28/09/44 - F/O. Austin G. Petry (R/O). 29-30/09/44 - Capt. Harold F. Augspurger (P). 29-30/09/44 - 2Lt. Austin G. Petry (R/O). It seems that these claimed for the 27-28 and 29-30th for an FW200 and an HE111 were not allowed but are listed in the Declassified IAW EO12958 list that can be viewed in one of the stickies available at the top of the forum page. 27/12/44 - 1Lt. Henry J. Gilpin (P). 27/12/44 - 2Lt. Walter Clearly (R/O). 29/12/44 - 1Lt. Edward A. Schlueter (P). 29/12/44 - 2Lt. Donald J. Meiers (R/O). 29/12/44 - 1Lt. Edward A. Schlueter (P). 29/12/44 - 2Lt. Donald J. Meiers (R/O). This was the second claim for Schlueter and Meier's for the 29/12/44. 01/01/45 - 1Lt. Edward A. Schlueter (P). 01/01/45 - 2Lt. Donald J. Meier's (R/O). 03/03/45 - 1Lt. Henry J. Gilpin (P). 03/03/45 - 2Lt. Walter Clearly (R/O). Alex |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Michael,
416 NFS 08/02/44 - 2Lt. James D. Urso (P). 08/02/44 - F/O. Daniel T. Powell (R/O). 24/02/44 - Capt. Darwin V. Drake Jr (P). 24/02/44 - F/O. Alfred A. Gander (R/O). 17/03/44 - 2Lt. George P. Ford (P). 17/03/44 - F/O. Arthur G. Gaudette (R/O). 10/04/44 - Maj. Rulon D. Blake (P). 10/04/44 - 2Lt. Horace E. Moody (R/O). This crew claimed one probable and one damaged He177's while in Beaufighter ND274. 14/05/44 - 2Lt. James D. Urso (P). 14/05/44 - F/O. Daniel T. Powell (R/O). 28/02/45 - Capt. Lawrence E. Englert (P). 28/02/45 - 2Lt. Earl R. Dickey (R/O). This claim for a Ju188 was made flying a DH Mosquito serial number MM746. Alex |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Michael
417NFS 11/11/43 - 1Lt. Clarence R. McCray (P). 11/11/43 - F/O. Robert D. Hamilton ( R/O). Squadron's 1st victory, a Do217. A second was claimed as "Damaged" this night. 02/02/44 - 2Lt. Rayford W. Jeffrey (P). 02/02/44 - 2Lt. William A. Henderson (R/O). This claim was for a Ju88. 28/03/44 - 2Lt. Rayford W. Jeffrey (P). 28/03/44 - 2Lt. William A. Henderson ( R/O). This crew's second Ju88, they claimed a third on the 31/03/44 as "Damaged". 13/05/44 - Capt. Clarence R. McCray (P). 13/05/44 - 2Lt. Robert D. Hamilton ( R/O). This claim was for an He177. McCray together with 2Thomas Welfley claimed a Ju88 as " Damaged" on the 15/05/44. 20/07/44 - 2Lt. Robert W. Inglis (P). 20/07/44 - F/O. Theodore E. Hearne (R/O). 03/08/44 - 1Lt. William R. Williamson ( P). 03/08/44 - 2Lt. Dan B. Cordell (R/O). 28/11/44 - Capt. Theodore A. Deakyne (P). 28/11/44 - 1Lt. Robert E. Perkins (R/O). 28/12/44 - 1Lt. Malcolm D. Campbell (P). 28/1244 - 2Lt. Robert J. McCullen (R/O). Alex |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Alex,
All five claims by the 414th NFS in 1945 were made while flying the P-61, and are considered to be ETO claims, not MTO. They are confirmed by 9th Tactical Air Command Victory Credit Board reports. Enjoy! Frank. |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Frank,
Thank you for the update re the P61 claims. I had recently been corrected about the 415 NFS claims and their P61's so aprecated it. With regard to ETO or MTO claims, I do not think that Michael differentiated, So I gave what I had. The 416NFS Mosquito claim is interesting if only because they had them because the delivery of their P61's was delayed. Again thanks for the update. My 414 NFS post above now corrected. Alex |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Alex,
thanks a lot for your Beaufighter victory lists. They match quite well with the data provided on oocities.org. The main differences are:
Was Allemande a third crew member ? Were Gamble/Owen a Beaufighter crew ? Cheers, Michael |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Michael,
In response to the questions you now raise on the 414NFS/417 NFS's - 1 - the 23/12/44 claim by the Jones crew. My additional comment does refer to it being the Squadrons last Beaufighter claim, my ref to this was from the notes I took some time ago from either of the following, "Bristol Beaufighter" by J. Scutts; "Beaufighter Squadrons" by Simon Parry; "The Bristol Beaufighter "SAM Publication; "Camouflage & Markings"; armyairforce.com(old forum); AAIR; and other forums one of which you gave in your earlier post. 2 - The claim by the Lutz crew, if you check Frank's post above you will see that it was a P61 claim so is not relevant to your Beaufighter question, but is in my list as others as "all "squadron claims. 3 - The 417 NFS claim by the Groom crew, as in my post above the claims list ( link given) has only as in my post - "Groom, Robert C - 25/08/44 and 17/12/44 - 48 FS - MTO" these are the only claims in the list by a Groom. "Roth, Russell M - 12/04/44 and 21/12/44 - 80 FS - SWP" these are the only claims in the list by a Roth. Both the Groom and Roth claims are on different dates and different parts of the world, I have no further info re the Groom/Roth crew with the 417 NFS. What was the date of their claim ? Alex |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Alex,
thanks for your answer. The 23/12/44 kill of Jones: I think you're right about it being scored is a Beau because the website indicates the first P-61 kill by 414 NFS was scored on 4/2/45. Andrew Thomas and Warren Thompson write that this unit scored 13 kills (of these five in the P-61). The Lutz kill you described fits in well if we assume that Clark's 26/11/43 kill and Anderson's 23/01/44 kill were half-shares with another unit, respectively. Could you agree ? Walter Groom and Harold Roth: all I can say that they must've existed. http://417th-nightfighters.com/wp-co...VanLaecken.pdf Best greetings from rainy Brandenburg, Michael |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Michael,
You refer to - "Andrew Thomas and Warren Thompson write" Where ? If you look at my posts you will see that the Anderson/Armstrong claim on the 23/01/44 was a shared claim with Gamble/Owen, their joint victim was a Do217. The list of 414NFS approved claims ( not therefore assumed) is on page 649 in the link I have in an earlier post. I have no wish to change anything to fit in with a particular view of events. However I note that Gamble and Owen are not in the list, for now I cannot recall where I got them from . If not they that shared the Anderson/Armstrong claim of 23/01/44 then who ? The other claim for that date was as noted in my earlier list, George/Penn, a He177K. With regard to Groom and Roth, well we now know they existed and are not the Groom and Roth I noted earlier but they are not in the claims list so perhaps their claim(s,?) Was/were disallowed ? What was the date of their claim(s ?). All for now Additional If the first claim in my 414NFS list by Jones/Rudovsky, dated 23/01/44 was as I suspected an error then we would indeed have a total of 13 claims, Alex |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Quote:
We need the official Victory Credit Board reports for the 414.-417. NFS. Can we safely that Schlueter is the top USAAF Beaufigher pilot with 3 kills and Petry the top USAAF Beaufighter radar operator with 4 kills ? Have a nice evening, Michael |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Hello Michael,
The claims list . See my earlier post (post number 2 ) I gave the link. Alex |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Good morning Alex,
I finally managed to download and open the cool list. Would you consider this list definite ? The 414. NFS victory list looks like 8 Beau kills + 5 P-61 kills. No shared kills. The Jones kill on 23/01/44 is not listed, also not in the section that is sorted by name. Thanks and kind regards, Michael |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Good morning Gentlemen,
I think the overall top American Beaufighter ace is Carl Johnson. He scored 4+1shared kills for the 227.Squadron/RAF. However, the decimal of his shared kill (22Sep1942) ain't clear. Thomas/Thompson write it's a half-share whereas Shores/Williams write it's a 1/3 share. Who can clarify that issue ? Kind regards, Michael |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
It is a 1/3rd share, on September 25, 1942 (not Sept 22). Reference: Malta Daily Intelligence Summary 462: Air 22/392 Part 3; No 227 Sqn ORB. Shared with F/Lt Peter L Underwood and his gunner, and P/O Richard A Wills and his gunner. Johnson's gunner on all his claims was P/O Leslie H Hunt.
Enjoy! Frank. |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Good afternoon Frank,
thanks for your answer. You're right about the date. It was corrected by Shores in ACES HIGH VOl.2. Kind regards, Michael |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Quote:
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Re: USAAF Beaufighters
The Operation Reports for the 414th NFS for December 1944 are in box 3756 of Entry 7A of Record Group 18 at NARA II, College Park, Maryland.
Enjoy! Frank. |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Good evening Frank,
I'm inclined to believe Nick's assessment rather than cross the ocean to reach Maryland ;-) But I'll keep that box in mind. Kind regards, Michael |
Re: USAAF Beaufighters
Summary:
US Beaufighters scored 31 kills (25 in the MTO and 6 in the ETO). 8 by 414 NFS: Anderson, Atwater, Clark, George, Holbig, Jones, Patterson, Smith http://www.oocities.org/mep1100/414NFS.html 11 by 415 NFS (including the ETO kills): Augspurger (2), Giblin (2), Horne, Lindsay (2), Schlueter (3), Walber http://www.oocities.org/mep1100/415NFS.html 4 by 416 NFS: Brake, Forst, Urso (2) http://www.oocities.org/mep1100/416NFS.html 8 by 417 NFS: Campbell, Deakyne, Inglis, Jeffrey (2), McCray (2), Williamson. The entry for Groom is not valid. http://www.oocities.org/mep1100/417NFS.html The top USAAF Beaufighter pilot was Edward Schlueter with 3 kills. The top USAAF Beaufighter radar operator was Austin Petry with 4 kills. The top US Beaufighter pilot was Carl Johnson with 4,33 [4+1] kills for 227.Squadron/RAF. |
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