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He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Hi all!
Perhaps a difficult task, but would it be possible to sum up all (or at least the ones we know of…) He 219 nightfighters found or captured at the end of hostilities? From various sources and my own research I have found the below listed places and aircraft (Werknummer and general condition found): Schwechat 190011 damaged/destroyed 190062 destroyed 190068 destroyed 190071 destroyed 190106 destroyed 190193 destroyed Ludwigslust: 310190 destroyed 310202 destroyed 310214 destroyed Lechfeld (3 pcs total) 190104 ok 190176 ok 190179 ok Westerland/Sylt (45 pcs total) 190130 290123 ok 310106 ok 310112 ok 310182 310188 310215 ok 420331 ok Halle 310193 damaged Münster/Handorf 211116 211121 destroyed 211124 290057 destroyed 290059 damaged 290199 destroyed 290200 destroyed Paderborn 290004 destroyed Soltau (6 pcs total) 310185 destroyed Hörsching/Lintz, Austria 190060 ok Karup/Grove, Denmark (7 pcs total) 210903 ok 290060 ok 290126 ok 290202 ok 310109 ok 310189 ok 310200 ok Kastrup, Denmark (1 pcs total) 210901 ok Eger/Cheb, CZ 190121 damaged 190223 destroyed As can be seen there are many blanks, especially regarding Westerland/Sylt, in the above. Does anyone have more information? Most likely there would also be several other locations where these aircraft ended up - please feel free to add to the list. And, of course, if you spot any errors in my summary, please feel free to point them out. Thank you very much in advance! |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Thanks for the interesting list. Some minor comments:
Sylt 290123 was G9+TH 420331 was G9+DB Paderborn My notes show 290004 was found at Münster/Handorf. Either way, code was G9+DH Hörsching 190060 was PK+QJ Grove 290126 was D5+BL 310189 was D5+CL Cheb 190121 was DV+DQ also Hildesheim 290112 (photo with Allied troops sitting all over it, WNr. clearly visible) Münster/Handorf 290124 (photo with American GI, WNr. clearly visible) |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
I believe that 2 books are about to be published on the He 219 so maybe all the answers are there
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Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
thanks Chris
for 'about to be published' read when the authors actually finish! |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
As always when researching the He 219, for every two steps forward you take one back: the later publications indeed tend to correct many old mistakes as well as providing some new information, however, they also raise new questions…
Chris, the two new books are most welcome (the one by Francis Ferguson is already released I believe), but there are still some mystery puzzles regarding the story of the Uhu that remain unsolved. Earlier this year Valiant Wings also released an updated volume of Richard Franks’ excellent book (first published in 2012), providing som new and most welcome information – however, it still includes a couple of errors and contradictory information. AndyMa, thanks a lot for your additions! The final location of WNr 290004 could very well have been Münster/Handorf; I have it listed at Paderborn albeit with a questionmark, so this will require some further investigation. So, if we update the list we would get something like the below (I have added known Stammkennzeichen and operational codes): Schwechat (5 pcs total according to some sources) 190011 VO+BC damaged/destroyed 190062 RL+AB destroyed (possibly found elsewhere than at Schwechat?) 190068 RL+AH / VO+BC destroyed 190071 RL+AK destroyed 190106 DV+DB destroyed 190193 BE+JF / G9+EK destroyed Ludwigslust: 310190 KO+HT destroyed 310202 KZ+UH destroyed 310214 KZ+UT destroyed Lechfeld (3 pcs total) 190104 RL+AW ok 190176 GU+BI ok 190179 GU+BL ok Westerland/Sylt (45 pcs total) 190130 GU+BF ok 290117 ok 290123 G9+TH ok 290124 ok 310106 KO+HA ok 310112 KO+HG ok 310114 KO+HI ok 310182 KO+HL / G9+VH ok 310188 KO+HR ok 310208 KZ+UN ok 310215 ok 420331 G9+DB ok Halle 310193 KO+HW damaged Münster/Handorf 211116 G9+UL destroyed 211121 G9+DL destroyed 211124 290004 G9+DH destroyed (possibly found at Paderborn?) 290057 CS+QD destroyed 290059 CS+QF / G9+BH damaged 290199 GI+KN destroyed 290200 GI+KO / G9+CB destroyed Paderborn 290004 G9+DH destroyed (possibly found at Münster/Handorf?) Soltau (6 pcs total) 310185 KO+HO destroyed Hörsching 190060 PK+QJ ok Karup/Grove (7 pcs total) 210903 SP+CR / G9+LP ok 290060 CS+QG ok 290126 D5+BL ok 290202 GI+KQ / G9+KQ ok 310109 KO+HD / G9+VH (?) ok 310189 KO+HS / D5+CL ok 310200 KZ+UF / D5+DL ok Kastrup (1 pcs total) 210901 B4+AA ok Eger/Cheb 190121 DV+DQ damaged 190223 BE+JU destroyed Münich-Riems 190113 DV+DI destroyed Hildesheim 290112 damaged Do we have any information on aircraft found at Rostock? Regarding Westerland/Sylt: there have been rumours of an inventory list of captured/surrendered aircraft there - is this list possibly available somewhere? |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
To address a couple of points raised in your post.
43 He 219s were captured at Westerland-Sylt - 2nd TAF Report B-135. Regrettably no detailed listing exists. FIU Report 53 on Wien-Schwechat provides good detail on 5 He 219s. The Paderborn He 219 is covered by TI Report A-384. Hildesheim is covered by TI Report A-371. You're welcome to PM me for copies of these. |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
??+CL found in Bindbach near Bayreuth.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...dc07ba04_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...38b616b9_b.jpg |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Thank you Steve, PM sent!
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Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Thank you again Steve for the excellent reports!
Also, thank you Revi16 for the picture of the Bindbach He 219 – this is a very good picture of ??+CL, although unfortunately the WNr of this aircraft is (AFAIK) still unknown. Updated list below: Schwechat (5 pcs total according to FIU Report 53) 190011 VO+BC damaged/destroyed (V11) (A/C (b) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190062 RL+AB destroyed (possibly found elsewhere than at Schwechat?) 190068 RL+AH / VO+BC destroyed (V28) (A/C (e) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190071 RL+AK destroyed (V18) (A/C (d), BL+AK acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190106 DV+DB destroyed (V31) (A/C (c) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190193 BE+JF / G9+EK destroyed (V16, Jumo222) (A/C (f), BF+JF V18 acc. to FIU Rep.53) Ludwigslust: 310190 KO+HT destroyed 310202 KZ+UH destroyed 310214 KZ+UT destroyed Lechfeld (3 pcs total) 190104 RL+AW ok 190176 GU+BI ok 190179 GU+BL ok Westerland/Sylt (43 pcs total) 190130 GU+BF ok 290117 ok 290123 G9+TH ok 290124 ok 310106 KO+HA ok 310112 KO+HG ok 310114 KO+HI ok 310182 KO+HL / G9+VH ok 310188 KO+HR ok 310208 KZ+UN ok 310215 ok 420331 G9+DB ok Halle 310193 KO+HW damaged Münster/Handorf 211116 G9+UL destroyed 211121 G9+DL destroyed 211124 290057 CS+QD destroyed 290059 CS+QF / G9+BH damaged 290199 GI+KN destroyed 290200 GI+KO / G9+CB destroyed Paderborn 290004 G9+DH destroyed (confirmed TI Rep.A-384) Soltau (6 pcs total) 310185 KO+HO destroyed Hörsching 190060 PK+QJ ok Karup/Grove (7 pcs total) 210903 SP+CR / G9+LP ok 290060 CS+QG ok 290126 D5+BL ok 290202 GI+KQ / G9+KQ ok 310109 KO+HD / G9+VH (?) ok 310189 KO+HS / D5+CL ok 310200 KZ+UF / D5+DL ok Kastrup (1 pcs total) 210901 B4+AA ok Eger/Cheb 190121 DV+DQ damaged 190223 BE+JU destroyed Münich-Riems 190113 DV+DI destroyed Hildesheim 290112 damaged Unidentified: ??+CL found in Bindbach near Bayreuth. 1 (possibly 2) found at Husum 15/5’45 310316 found destroyed (where?) |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
In Halle there was also the blown-up "1L+Mx" of NJGr.10.
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Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Karup/Grove (7 pcs total)
210903 SP+CR / G9+LP ok What is the source for G9+LP? 290060 CS+QG ok 290126 D5+BL ok 290202 GI+KQ / G9+KQ ok What is the source for G9+KQ? 310109 KO+HD / G9+VH (?) ok What is the source for G9+VH? 310189 KO+HS / D5+CL ok 310200 KZ+UF / D5+DL ok Junker |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Thanks for the further updates.
When you produce an updated list, could you please show the changes to the previous one? (maybe using red text like Junker has above?) Otherwise we have to go through the entire list (yet again) to look for the changes. |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Aircraft no.3 at Cheb/Eger = 3-digit-coded ‘188’. Can't be W.Nr. 310188, which was found at Fliegerhorst Westerland in 1945, while W.Nr. 190188 was lost in combat on the night of 3/4 June 1944 (Ferguson). Another option is W.Nr. 290188, which although appearing in Ferguson’s list of Werknummern and Stammkennzeichen is, according to him, possibly bogus.
Aircraft No.4 at Cheb/Eger = so far unidentified. Eger was taken by elements of the 79th US Infantry Division. I've been trying for a long time to track down veterans who may have secured the airfield, which also became a holding area for German POWs for a while. |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
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210903 SP+CR /G9+LP (later FE-612) G9+LP is listed in the below references: - Francis Ferguson "The Heinkel He 219 - A Research Paper" (3rd Edition) --- p84, note 55 --- also p100, comments for Stkz. SP+CR --- also p108, He 219 losses for June 22 - Richard Franks "The Heinkel He 219 'Uhu' - A Detailed Guide to the Luftwaffe's Ultimate Nightfighter" (2nd Edition) --- p16 290202 GI+KQ / G9+KQ (later FE-614) G9+KQ is listed in the below reference: - Marek Rys "Heinkel He 219 Uhu" (AJ-Press, Aircraft Monograph 21) --- p48 (in reference to Roland Remp "Der Nachtjäger Heinkel He 219") 310109 KO+HD / G9+VH (later AM21) G9+VH is listed in the below reference: - Marek Rys "Heinkel He 219 Uhu" (AJ-Press, Aircraft Monograph 21) --- p46 |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
richdlc,
Yes, Cheb/Eger is a bit of a mystery. Any findings there are further complicated by the fact that it was a repair facility: markings depicted in photos might not be of the actual "parent" aircraft, as substitute parts could have been used - the same way as for the "AM43" found at Westerland, with one (or two?) replacement rudders marked with W.Nr. 310114 and 310215. Is AM43 W.Nr. 310114 with a replacement rudder from 310215? Or is AM43 actually 310215 with a replacement rudder from 310114? Or is it an altogether different machine with two replacement rudders? I am not certain 290188 is bogus - I have it listed as an A-2 with Stkz. GI+KL and marked G9+WL (of 3.NJG1), shot down 17-18/12'44 by a Mosquito (157 Sqn RAF) 2km SE of Sonsbeck, with German crew Lt.Jürgen Prietze & Uffz.Frithjof Haake killed. There is another thing to consider regarding the ‘188’ marking: this might be a works number used at the repair facility and not the last three digits of the W.Nr. In FIU Report 53 (regarding Schwechat) there is reference to documents concerning W.Nr. 420325 and 420326 - they are also refered to as internal works numbers 113 and 114, respectively. Could this be the same for the Cheb/Eger ‘188’ - is this marking actually an internal works number? |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
210903 SP+CR /G9+LP (later FE-612)
G9+LP is listed in the below references: - Francis Ferguson "The Heinkel He 219 - A Research Paper" (3rd Edition) --- p84, note 55 --- also p100, comments for Stkz. SP+CR --- also p108, He 219 losses for June 22 - Richard Franks "The Heinkel He 219 'Uhu' - A Detailed Guide to the Luftwaffe's Ultimate Nightfighter" (2nd Edition) --- p16 Well they give no original documentation on G9+LP. It points to 6. Staffel NJG 1 wich did not have He 219. 290202 GI+KQ / G9+KQ (later FE-614) G9+KQ is listed in the below reference: - Marek Rys "Heinkel He 219 Uhu" (AJ-Press, Aircraft Monograph 21) --- p48 (in reference to Roland Remp "Der Nachtjäger Heinkel He 219") He just suppose G9+ has absolutely no documentation. +KQ is not a valid Vkz either. 310109 KO+HD / G9+VH (later AM21) G9+VH is listed in the below reference: - Marek Rys "Heinkel He 219 Uhu" (AJ-Press, Aircraft Monograph 21) --- p46 Again no documentation as to G9+VH. All He 219 delivered to I/NJG 3 were delivered with Skz. So it's rubbish to state the G9+ Vkz. Junker |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Junker, good points. Every little bit of information that can help correct errors and/or misunderstandings is most welcome.
So, now the list would be something like the below: Schwechat (5 pcs total according to FIU Report 53) 190011 VO+BC damaged/destroyed (V11) (A/C (b) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190062 RL+AB destroyed (possibly found elsewhere than at Schwechat?) 190068 RL+AH / VO+BC destroyed (V28) (A/C (e) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190071 RL+AK destroyed (V18) (A/C (d), BL+AK acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190106 DV+DB destroyed (V31) (A/C (c) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190193 BE+JF / G9+EK destroyed (V16, Jumo222) (A/C (f), BF+JF V18 acc. to FIU Rep.53) Ludwigslust: 310190 KO+HT destroyed 310202 KZ+UH destroyed 310214 KZ+UT destroyed Lechfeld (3 pcs total) 190104 RL+AW ok 190176 GU+BI ok 190179 GU+BL ok Westerland/Sylt (43 pcs total) 190130 GU+BF ok 290117 ok 290123 G9+TH ok 290124 ok 310106 KO+HA ok 310112 KO+HG ok 310114 KO+HI ok 310182 KO+HL / G9+VH ok 310188 KO+HR ok 310208 KZ+UN ok 310215 ok 420331 G9+DB ok Halle 310193 KO+HW damaged xxxxxx 1L+Mx destroyed Münster/Handorf 211116 G9+UL destroyed 211121 G9+DL destroyed 211124 290057 CS+QD destroyed 290059 CS+QF / G9+BH damaged 290199 GI+KN destroyed 290200 GI+KO / G9+CB destroyed Paderborn 290004 G9+DH destroyed (confirmed TI Rep.A-384) Soltau (6 pcs total) 310185 KO+HO destroyed Hörsching 190060 PK+QJ ok Karup/Grove (7 pcs total) 210903 SP+CR ok 290060 CS+QG ok 290126 D5+BL ok 290202 GI+KQ ok 310109 KO+HD ok 310189 KO+HS / D5+CL ok 310200 KZ+UF / D5+DL ok Kastrup (1 pcs total) 210901 B4+AA ok Eger/Cheb 190121 DV+DQ damaged 190223 BE+JU destroyed xxxxxx ‘188’ xxxxxx Münich-Riems 190113 DV+DI destroyed Hildesheim 290112 damaged Bindbach xxxxxx xx+CL damaged Unidentified: 1 (possibly 2) found at Husum 15/5’45 310316 found destroyed (where?) |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b7ccc3a2_w.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...07c3874f_o.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a9b903a4_o.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d54115cd_o.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ccd5ebc1_o.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1fa0cdff_o.jpg |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
621619 and 622328 are Ju 88 G-6
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Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
From War Prizes by Phil Butler.
Air Ministry 20, He 219A (W Nr 290126) photo on page 81. It was coded 'D5+BL' of I/NJG 3. Surrendered in Denmark at Grove... (pg 80) AM 21 Heinkel He 219A-2 W Nr 310109 Surrendered at Grove, no code recorded. (pg 82) AM 43 Heinkel He 219A-2 W Nr unknown This aircraft was surrendered at Sylt, no code recorded. (pg 87) AM 44 Heinkel 219A-2 W Nr 310106 Surrendered at Sylt, no code recorded. Heinkel He 219A W Nr 210903 (later to become USA 8 and FE-612) at Grove... photo on page 157. Note: By prior agreement, aircraft recovered by the British but of interest to the U.S., would receive USA numbers prior to transfer. USA 9 Heinkel He 219A-2 W Nr 290060 Coded 'CS+QG'. Surrendered at Grove. Later "FE-613'... (pg 190) FE 614/T2-614 Heinkel He 219A W Nr 290202 Found at Grove. (pg 218) Czechoslovakia acquired two but no details are given except "Heinkel He 219A night fighters (two used under the designation LB-79)" (page 289) |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Switch "Bindbach" to Bayreuth-Bindlach and "Münich-Riems" to München-Riem
Otherwise a Google search might be fruitless. Regards RolandF |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
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Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
RolandF: thank you - updated list below (Bayreuth-Bindlach & München-Riem).
richdlc: your book is eagerly awaited! Your findings and any further new information in it will no doubt make it an excellent companion to the latest book by Ferguson. Schwechat (5 pcs total according to FIU Report 53) 190011 VO+BC damaged/destroyed (V11) (A/C (b) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190062 RL+AB destroyed (possibly found elsewhere than at Schwechat?) 190068 RL+AH / VO+BC destroyed (V28) (A/C (e) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190071 RL+AK destroyed (V18) (A/C (d), BL+AK acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190106 DV+DB destroyed (V31) (A/C (c) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190193 BE+JF / G9+EK destroyed (V16, Jumo222) (A/C (f), BF+JF V18 acc. to FIU Rep.53) Ludwigslust: 310190 KO+HT destroyed 310202 KZ+UH destroyed 310214 KZ+UT destroyed Lechfeld (3 pcs total) 190104 RL+AW ok 190176 GU+BI ok 190179 GU+BL ok Westerland/Sylt (43 pcs total) 190130 GU+BF ok 290117 ok 290123 G9+TH ok 290124 ok 310106 KO+HA ok 310112 KO+HG ok 310114 KO+HI ok 310182 KO+HL / G9+VH ok 310188 KO+HR ok 310208 KZ+UN ok 310215 ok 420331 G9+DB ok Halle 310193 KO+HW damaged xxxxxx 1L+Mx destroyed Münster/Handorf 211116 G9+UL destroyed 211121 G9+DL destroyed 211124 290057 CS+QD destroyed 290059 CS+QF / G9+BH damaged 290199 GI+KN destroyed 290200 GI+KO / G9+CB destroyed Paderborn 290004 G9+DH destroyed (confirmed TI Rep.A-384) Soltau (6 pcs total) 310185 KO+HO destroyed Hörsching 190060 PK+QJ ok Karup/Grove (7 pcs total) 210903 SP+CR ok 290060 CS+QG ok 290126 D5+BL ok 290202 GI+KQ ok 310109 KO+HD ok 310189 KO+HS / D5+CL ok 310200 KZ+UF / D5+DL ok Kastrup (1 pcs total) 210901 B4+AA ok Eger/Cheb 190121 DV+DQ damaged 190223 BE+JU destroyed xxxxxx ‘188’ München-Riem 190113 DV+DI destroyed Hildesheim 290112 damaged Bayreuth-Bindlach xxxxxx xx+CL damaged Unidentified: 1 (possibly 2) found at Husum 15/5’45 310316 found destroyed (where?) |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
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Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Westerland-Sylt
G9+MH 310204 ? 420333 |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Thank you ZOLTAN190D! 420333 is new to me - do you perhaps have any further info on this machine (condition etc)?
Regarding 1L+MK found destroyed at Halle - have a look at these additional images: https://www.garaget.org/mypage/galle...&image=2877584 https://www.garaget.org/mypage/galle...&image=2877583 https://www.garaget.org/mypage/galle...&image=2877587 https://www.garaget.org/mypage/galle...&image=2877586 https://www.garaget.org/mypage/galle...&image=2877585 Note the light coloured (white?) spinners with dark (black?) spirals, and also the application of additional ground camouflage (Liegeplatz-Tarnung). Although the fuselage code is illegible, the position of the spiral on the port spinner as well as the location of the broken (burned) off cockpit section (as well as the position of the nose gear strut), all point in the direction that this is 1L+MK (as depicted in your photo). |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
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Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Here are a few additions to your list:
Westerland-Sylt 310112 KO+HG / (G9)+RH 1./NJG 1? intact 290??? (G9)+?? I./NJG 1? intact (black undersides) ?????? (G9)+AH 1./NJG 1? damaged ?????? G9+PH 1./NJG 1 intact ?????? (G9)+HK 2./NJG 1? intact ?????? (G9)+LK 2./NJG 1? intact ?????? (G9)+TK 2./NJG 1? intact Münster-Handorf 290124 ??+?? intact (not at Westerland/Sylt) ?????? G9+SK 2./NJG 1 destroyed ?????? G9+VL 3./NJG 1 destroyed Flensburg 290??? ??+?? NJG ? damaged (black undersides) Soltau (Hamburg) 310185 --+-- NJG ? destroyed Unknown (Münster-Handorf?) 310198 --+-- NJG ? destroyed Unknown (Lechfeld?) 190223 BE+JU NJG ? destroyed (location uncertain) Best, David |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
BE+JU belonged to I/NJG 1.
Junker |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Thank you David!
These are all very welcome additions to the summary - I will update the list shortly. Regarding 190223: I actually have this aircraft listed as found destroyed at Eger/Cheb - two (poor) pictures below: https://www.fronta.cz/foto/he-219-a-trupy-me-262 https://www.fronta.cz/foto/chebske-letiste-18 The three relatively well-documented He-219s found at Lechfeld was (AFAIK) 190104, 190176, and 190179. |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
In response to post #27 (only because the point has been introduced to this thread)
Ron Ferguson did indeed table on p.38 of his latest that EHFWien delivered fifteen He 219 A-2s with the Werk-Nummern of 420319 to 333, as well as five D-1s assigned WNr. 420371 to 375. However both statements are unsafe, since WNr. 420325 was actually delivered as a standard He 219 D-1. This is clear from the wording on page 4 of the FIU Report (No.53 dated 8th Aug 1945 produced by Number 1 Field Intelligence Unit (Austria) and found in the UK NA within AIR 23/6369) “Among the documentary evidence found were two files concerning the manufacturing history of two He 219’s, numbers 430325 and 430326, for which the internal works numbers were 113 and 114. Apart from showing the many defects discovered at the inspection, these files show that No. 113 had Jumo 213 engines and methanol/water injection, and was fitted with FuG 220. Number 114 had DB603AA engines, but also many troubles.” There is nothing here to indicate that 430325 was anything other than a standard series production machine fitted with Jumo 213Es and so by definition a He 219 D-1. (Ron quotes these same words on p.86 but then manages to confuse this aircraft numbered 430325 with A-2 WNr. 420323 independently documented as the He 219 V41 Versuchsträger für Jumo 213 E in the V-Muster Industrie Lieferplan sheet dated 02-Jan-45 [see FD 61/46 at IWM Duxford which was also seen by Ron as noted on p.92 in note 2].) One has to ask then how likely would it be that the manufacturing file for an individual aircraft found at Schwechat by the FIU would make no mention whatsoever that this airframe had been selected as a Versuchsmaschine, when all other references to He 219 V-Muster examples were carefully documented throughout this FIU report? The other points that somehow got overlooked here were that: 1. Lieferplan 227/1 of 15-Dec-44 showed that EHFWien had delivered a total of just 11 He 219 A-2 by the close of 30-Nov-44 with no more to follow. (See BA-MA RL 3/1045.) 2. This total of just 11 A-2 from Wien-Schwechat is supported precisely by the monthly quantities of neubau aircraft deliveries (in this period this report series was titled Beiträge zur Beschaffungsmeldung). (See RLM 1435 for the relevant months on US NARA Microfilm T177-42) The detailed split of EHFW A-2 deliveries given there is: Sep-44 = 5 Oct-44 = 3 Nov-44 = 3 Total = 11 3. Separately, the eleven individual EHFW He 219 A-2 identities along with at least two of the D-1s have each been independently corroborated subsequently. In conclusion then, it is clear that EHFWien deliveries of neither of these two sub-types were assigned Werk-Nummern running in a single complete consecutive sequence. |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Thanks for the corrections and clarifications Gents.
David |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
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Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Most welcome.
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Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
INM@RLM: Indeed, thank you for this information!
So, just to be clear (as much as is possible, that is...): 420323 was actually V41 and serving as the testbed for the Jumo 213E powered D-1, while 420325 was a standard production D-1. In Ferguson's latest book he writes (on p56) that "the He 219 V41 entered front-line service in February 1945 and was lost in combat the following month." On p86 & p167 he further writes that the V41 entered front-line combat operations on the night of 21-22 February 1945. Marked G9+BL and assigned to 3./NJG1 it was flown by the Staffelkapitän Oblt. Heinz Oloff & Fw. Helmut Fischer. And, finally, on p171-172 he writes that V41 was shot down on the night of 20-21 March 1945. All this above thus actually refer to 420323, correct? In addition, there are other references of 420372 being flown on 28 January 1945 by Einflieger Gleuwits & Bordfunker Schöfoel. Regarding the production of the He 219 D-1, this would give us someting like the below: 420323 V41, marked G9+BL ("prototype" D-1) 420325 standard D-1 (confirmed produced by FIU Report No.53) 420371 standard D-1 (most likely produced as its W-Nr. precede 420372) 420372 standard D-1 (most likely produced according to the reference above of being flown on 28 January 1945) 420373 standard D-1 (possibly produced) 420374 standard D-1 (possibly produced) 420375 standard D-1 (possibly NOT produced) The above assume the total figure of six D-1 produced is correct. |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
And, in addition to the previous post, regarding the 11 (of 15 planned) A-2 from Schwechat, this would be the below:
420319 420320 (marked G9+xx, damaged 27 January 1944 at Ludwigslust) 420321 420322 (marked G9+NK, shot down 4 December 1944 @ Ostbevern (near Loddenheide/Telgte)) 420324 (marked G9+xx, damaged on landing 6 February 1945 near Münster/Handorf) 420326 (confirmed produced by FIU Report No.53) 420327 420328 (marked G9+OL, craschlanded 19 April 1945 @ Westerland/Sylt) 420329 (marked G9+BH, crashed 5 January 1945 @ Diepholz) 420330 420331 (marked G9+DB, found @ Westerland/Sylt) 420332 not produced 420333 not produced Does this match up with your data? |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Some thoughts on the puzzles posted in #35 & #36:
YES - 420323 was actually the V41 and served as the testbed for the Jumo 213E-powered He 219; trials that resulted in the procurement from EHFW of a small series production batch of just five D-1 examples. YES - 420325 was a standard production D-1 (the first such example since WNr. 420 324 is a confirmed A-2 identity - see Ron (2020) Loss Table p.188 06-Feb-45). You next listed all the places where Ron associated the He 219 V41 with WNr. 420325, and then where he went on further to link these to the entry into service of He 219 A-2 G9+BL with 3./NJG 1 during Feb-45, plus its subsequent loss on the night of 20/1-Mar-45. The reported WNr. of that lost machine was 190014 and apparently it was identified as the V14. All of that cat's cradle constructed by Ron hangs on deriving a link between the V14 as the V41, and since the loss was reported as an A-2 then it has to be the loss of the V41 Versuchsträger converted to a D-series configuration from an A-2. This picture definitely needs a critical re-examination and I'm sure Marcel will be doing this. Until then I'd suggest the jury remains out. I have not seen the document recording the March'45 loss as yet but, absent that, my own thoughts are running along these lines:
To your "The above assume the total figure of six D-1 produced is correct." To be very precise only five series production D-1 were ever planned and built/delivered. This sub-type was only first documented in LP 227/1, issued 15-Dec-44, where all five were shown to be delivered AFTER 30-Nov-1944. Planned D-1 deliveries were all in Dec-44 from EHFW; actual deliveries were four in December and one in Jan-45. Hence there was no sixth D-1; the only other D-related example was the V41 Versuchsträger used to trial the Jumo 213E installation and converted from a He 219 A-2. However, the V41 was reported and counted as an A-2 delivery. To your "regarding the 11 (of 15 planned) A-2 from Schwechat". My apologies for being picky, but there never ever were 15 A-2 planned from Schwechat. Planned A-2 quantities from Schwechat were just these: LP 226/1 (15-May-44) First mention of the A-2 sub-type in a formal production plan = Total 54, first 4 in July'44 and last 30 in Sep'44 LP 226/2 (15-Jul-44) Now no mention of any A-2 from EHFW; all to come from EHFR mostly with the DB 603 Aa but later the DB 603 E was to be substituted. So the reality of what happened at EHFW with the A-2 bore almost no resemblance to what had been planned. Rather people were now making it up as they went along, grabbing whatever was available in terms of resources and sub-assemblies already built (or mostly built) and using those to the best effect still possible. Forgive me please if I don't go into the matter of individual A-2 and D-1 identities. Marcel has worked long and hard on this and we should wait to see what he has to say. It has no direct relevance anyway to the very commendable task of listing out all He 219 examples still surviving at war's end. |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Thank you again for your elaboration - I find your theory about 290014 most interesting!
I also fully respect the massive effort put in by Marcel, Rich, et al regarding these matters, and I am eagerly awating the release of their work. Hopefully the publication date won't be too far away now, and there can be a continued discussion after that. So, returning to the attempted summary of "Uhu"s found: with the latest additions we now have something like the below: Schwechat (5 pcs total according to FIU Report 53) 190011 VO+BC (V11) damaged/destroyed (A/C (b) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190068 RL+AH (V28) destroyed (A/C (e) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190071 RL+AK (V18) destroyed (A/C (d), BL+AK acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190106 DV+DB (V31) damaged/destroyed (A/C (c) acc. to FIU Rep.53) 190193 BE+JF / G9+EK (V16, Jumo 222) destroyed (A/C (f), BF+JF V18 acc. to FIU Rep.53) Ludwigslust (4 pcs total?) 310190 KO+HT damaged/destroyed 310202 KZ+UH destroyed 310205 KZ+UK damaged/destroyed 310214 KZ+UT destroyed Lechfeld (3 pcs total) 190104 RL+AW ok 190176 GU+BI ok 190179 GU+BL / G9+PK ok Westerland/Sylt (43 pcs total) 190130 GU+BF ok 211120 290117 ok 290123 G9+TH ok 290196 GI+KK 310106 KO+HA ok (AM44) 310112 KO+HG /(G9)+RH ok 310114 KO+HI ok (AM43?) 310182 KO+HL / G9+VH ok 310188 KO+HR ok 310204 KZ+UJ / G9+MH 310208 KZ+UN ok 310215 ok (AM43?) 420328 G9+OL damaged/destroyed 420331 G9+DB ok 420333 290xxx ok (black undersides) xxxxxx (G9)+AH damaged xxxxxx G9+PH ok xxxxxx (G9)+HK ok xxxxxx (G9)+TK ok xxxxxx (G9)+LK ok Halle 310193 KO+HW damaged xxxxxx 1L+MK destroyed Münster/Handorf (9 pcs total?) 211116 G9+VL destroyed 211121 G9+DL destroyed 211124 290057 CS+QD destroyed 290059 CS+QF / G9+BH damaged 290124 ok 290199 GI+KN / G9+xx destroyed 290200 GI+KO / G9+CB destroyed xxxxxx G9+SK destroyed Paderborn (1 pcs total) 290004 G9+DH destroyed (confirmed TI Rep.A-384) Soltau (6 pcs total) 310185 KO+HO destroyed Hörsching (1 pcs total) 190060 PK+QJ ok (V17) Karup/Grove (7 pcs, possibly up to 18 pcs more in disrepair?) 210903 SP+CR / G9+LP ok (USA 8 / FE-612 / T2-612) 290060 CS+QG ok (USA 9 / FE-613 / T2-613) 290126 D5+BL ok (AM20) 290202 GI+KQ ok (USA 10 / FE-614 / T2-614) 310109 KO+HD ok (AM21) 310189 KO+HS / D5+CL ok (AM22) 310200 KZ+UF / D5+DL ok (AM23) Kastrup (1 pcs total) 210901 B4+AA ok Eger/Cheb (4 pcs?, possibly up to 9 pcs total?) 190121 DV+DQ damaged (V23/V32 hybrid) 190223 BE+JU destroyed xxxxxx ‘188’ München-Riem 190069 RL+AI destroyed (V29) 190113 DV+DI destroyed ((V23)) Hildesheim 290112 damaged Bayreuth-Bindlach xxxxxx xx+CL damaged Flensburg 290xxx damaged (black undersides) Unidentified: 1 (possibly 2) found at Husum 15/5’45 190062 RL+AB found destroyed (where?) 310198 KZ+UD found destroyed (where?) 310316 found destroyed (where?) And, last but not least: a very Happy New Year to you all! |
Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. It has direct relevance to our research and I will be sure to let the other authors know about it. As for a publication date, I think we are at least a year away from having anything that can be published. At this stage we are probably looking at a multi-volume book. When you think this list is 'finished' please let me / us know.
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Re: He-219 ”Uhu”s found at the end of the war
Keep in mind Occam's Razor. :)
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